Joey Pinz Discipline Conversations

#842 Maggie Perotin: 🧠 Scaling Success Without Burning Out

• Joey Pinz • Episode 842

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🔥 What happens when ambition meets burnout?

In this powerful conversation, Joey Pinz sits down with leadership coach and entrepreneur Maggie Perotin to explore the realities behind hustle culture, high performance, and building a sustainable business without sacrificing your life.

Maggie shares her journey from scaling corporate teams from 80 to 450 employees to experiencing burnout that forced her to rethink what success truly means. Together, she and Joey explore the difference between working hard and living intentionally — and why many entrepreneurs unknowingly create their own exhaustion.

They discuss the mindset shift required to move from corporate leadership to entrepreneurship, the role of habits in sustained performance, and how developing skills and systems can replace constant grinding.

Maggie also shares how growing up in communist Poland shaped her views on patience, delayed gratification, and personal responsibility — lessons that still influence how she approaches leadership today.

✨ Top 3 Highlights

✔ Why hustle culture may be sabotaging long-term success

✔ The mindset shift from corporate leader to entrepreneur

✔ How habits, systems, and purpose drive high performance

This episode is a thoughtful exploration of leadership, resilience, and building success that supports your life — not consumes it.

 

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SPEAKER_00

An excellent conversation with Maggie Periton. Really, really enjoyed our time. Opened the conversation with just Hul Hustle Culture and does kill long-term success. She works with um many corporate leaders to come over to be an entrepreneur and what the journey is like. Uh, we do talk about burnout. She was part of corporate culture where she was she helped scale eight eighty person to 400 and 450 people and what were the early signs and uh what to look out for. But just that and the whole, you know, the corporate mindset versus entrepreneur, how different it is to be an entrepreneur, you know, without a net. We go over high performance habits and uh she's originally from communist Poland and what the difference is between kind of the West entrepreneur and what we see over there. But just a wonderful conversation with Maggie. Great insights, really, really, really appreciated it. Thank you, Maggie, and thank you for watching and listening. Hi, I'm Joey Pins, and here's my 45-second introduction. After starting my business in the 90s, I started developing poor habits of eating in my diet because of working way too much. Before you know it, I found myself 340 pounds. The doctor told me if I don't lose the weight, I'm not gonna see my daughter graduate. Took the next seven months, lost 130 pounds. People think there's some secret. Ask me, how'd you lose that weight? Like there's some secret. There is no secret. How'd I lose the weight? Just one word discipline. I've had other successes in life, and I attribute them all to discipline. Now I'm not the king of discipline, but I believe that it can help all of us. Friends, colleagues convinced me to start a podcast. The podcast mission, how do we better ourselves and society? I talked to interesting people in health, fitness, sport, wellness, business, technology, science, art and culture. And I eventually asked them how discipline plays a role in their life. Podcast vision, growth through learning from others. Maggie Perriton. How long have you been dancing? Why do you love it so much?

SPEAKER_01

Me dancing? I love it. I haven't danced for long. My daughter dances really well. I were never as good as she is, but let me think.

SPEAKER_00

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SPEAKER_01

Six years. I danced for six years.

SPEAKER_00

Wow. And you were trained?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but it was, you know, we were, I would say we weren't professional. We're a little bit better than your recreational group, but we we started, so I'm originally Polish.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So we started as a folk group. So we danced folk dances, we did festivals, you know, we made our own money, like different things. We traveled a little bit. And then with that, we added a little bit of contemporary dance. But if I compare my contemporary dance skills to my daughter's contemporary dance skills, no contest. No, it does not compare.

SPEAKER_00

What's different about it?

SPEAKER_01

It it just the level of training and technique and how, you know, we were really at that time, like it was a long time ago. So at that time, I was in a small town, there wasn't a ballet or dance education. So I remember our choreographer had to travel 250 kilometers to a bigger city that had a professional dance group or company to kind of pick up certain things, but even she wasn't trained in that, right? So, like if you think about that and then you pass on the training, you know, okay.

SPEAKER_00

But you were doing something very structured and and constructive at a young age, so it helped.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. You know, dance the you know, as my daughter is dancing and so on, I kind of read more about it. So dance is a great holistic thing because you need to be a pro-athlete when you're at her level, you're really training as a pro-athlete.

SPEAKER_03

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

And at the same time, there is this artistic expression that has to happen. Like if you think about pro-athlete, they don't care how they look, right? They don't care to perform an act, they just, it's all about physical, whatever, and technical endurance. Whereas as a dancer, you have to perform at a high level and make it look effortless and project emotion and remember the choreography, let's say, that was given to you, right? So there's a lot that your brain has to interact. So, like their neuropathways are crazy how they develop in an in a dancer specifically, because of all those things that their body and mind, and they have to have a spatial awareness because you know, if they're trained, they're doing all those like tricks that's let's say an acrobat will do, right? Like there's a lot going on in a three-minute dance. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And it ended up turning him into a world champion boxer.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I can I can see that. I can see that. Because when you're a well-rounded dancer, your body, you're using all the muscles. Like you're developing muscles that I didn't know existed in your body. And and and you have to have a lot of control and therefore self-awareness to even extend the movement and project the movement and make sure, like, if you even in fast dances, when I look at my daughter and you know, the dancers that are with her, even the older ones that are even more experienced, they can create such beautiful extended movements in such a short count.

SPEAKER_03

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

In such a thing. So, like, I can see how you know, in a boxer, it develops a completely different way of moving. That might that might be an advantage because let's say their opponents are probably not not moving that way.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_01

So it is amazing.

SPEAKER_00

And you hear uh football players here in the States, NFL players often take ballet as well. I remember hearing just to just to move differently. It's very interesting that skill set.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Shouldn't be underestimated.

SPEAKER_01

No, no, definitely. Definitely. And you know, when when you dance also in a group, then you have teamwork, right? You have building a trust, especially if you're doing tricks where you have, you know, a group of dancers lifting or a partner. Like in, for example, when we're in a folk dance, a lot of folk dances are with the partner, right? So, yes, there's a group, but there's also you and your partner dynamic, so which in contemporary doesn't always happen. So it happens, but maybe not as much. So you also develop the trust that has to happen like automatically, because you don't have time to think when you're doing an acrobacy or you know, something that you've learned. It's just happened. So there's a lot of group, let's say, team building, trust building, you know, into the other person. Um, yeah, it's definitely in maybe undervalued discipline.

SPEAKER_00

That's a good way to look at that. Undervalued, yeah. People should look at that, yeah. Yeah. Maggie, is is whole is hustle culture is it actually killing long-term success?

SPEAKER_01

Uh, I don't so what I think hustle culture is killing, because you know, we see a lot of successful people that went through hustle, right? And so I you can't deny that if you're hustling, hustling, hustling, and you're doing it in the right way, that you can't be successful in this typical understanding that most of us have, especially in North America, like financial success, right? But what I think is what it's killing on the other end, it's killing the holistic living success, right? So I'm European. In Europe, I think we have a little bit of different way of living where I, yes, I love to, my professional part of life is important to me because it's a way to feel fulfilled and express myself, but that's just only part of me as a human being. So I work to live and not live to work, and that's a big difference, right? So if I'm only hustling, for me, I'm neglecting other parts of me as a human being and other parts of living a life that we only have one on this earth, or at least the one that we are aware of, right? Whatever you believe in, it doesn't matter. I don't remember my past lives, even if I had them, right? So I'm here to create a holistic experience. And I think if you fall into a hassle culture, you miss on a lot of other amazing parts of life because you're just focused on one thing. And so I believe that you can be successful also financially without hassle culture. Hassle culture is not the only way to be financially successful. There's probably more than one, but there's another way where you can be financially successful and at the same time have a successful life as a whole because there's more to us as humans than just finances and more work, right? The professional part of us.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's very true. The term hustle, I guess, sometimes doesn't have the the best uh because it could mean many things, but it just means being persistent and tenacious and consistent.

SPEAKER_01

In in this sense, it's fine, right? I guess the way maybe I understand hassle is just going after, let's say, professional success and financial success to the point where you're neglecting other parts of it and to the point where maybe at some point you're burned out. Maybe not when you're 20 and 30, but at some point you'll realize that maybe I sacrifice too much, right? Because for me, there's a difference between working hard and hustling. At least for me, it's an energy, a little bit of energetic thing where hustling, it's like, you know, I want this, I'll sacrifice everything where I go because I want for it. And yes, I'm disciplined, and yes, I'm going after my goals and so on. But I can also work hard and still go after my goals and still be disciplined and still do what I need to do, and at the same time organize my life and set up boundaries where when it's time to work hard, I work hard. But when it's time to spend time with my family, I give them all my attention. And when it's time to have fun or take care of me, I give it all my attention. It doesn't mean I spend an equal amount of time every day on all those things, but it means I'm very intentional and I'm thinking about my life a little bit more holistically. So that's I guess how I interpret it. So maybe I have a different interpretation of hustle.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Depends who you ask, certainly. Now you now, Meg, you scaled from people from 80 to 450 people. I mean, it's a lot of work talking about hustle. I mean, what did that what did that cost you personally?

SPEAKER_01

So that in for that, so yes, I worked in a corporation and we were a line of business. So my department, we were kind of like a business within a business. Well, we were scaling um mechanical service contracting from when I joined, it was about 80. When they started, it was zero, but I was part of a different department at that point. So when I joined, there were 80, and we scaled it until I left to about 450, and they kept scaling, right? So like instead of, but when I left that organization, it's about 450. Um, and a lot of that journey was fine. I enjoyed it. I learned a lot. I, you know, I learned a lot of skills, a lot of knowledge and experience and hands-on how do you scale already decent operation to a really large operation in North America without sacrificing the service delivery, keeping clients happy, you know, technology-wise, training-wise, all the things that have to go into such an operation. Um, because it's complex not only in what we were delivering, but also what were the terms of that delivery. But at some point, it did cost me a burnout.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And that was more, I call it like situational burnout. So it wasn't that I was hustling, hustling, hustling all the time and so on. Yes, it was demanding work. We work hard. And at the same time, to an extent, I was able to still have family and focus on certain things outside of work. But in that situation, business made a mistake. Let's say they committed too much, promising certain things to new clients, to a new market vertical that they wanted to enter, and they weren't ready to deliver. And not only they weren't ready to deliver in that moment, but they also didn't allocate enough resources in those contracts, whether it to be financial or technological, like whatever it was needed to figure out how we deliver something we promised that we can't in the moment. Right? Because sometimes I get it, as a business, you need to take risks. You say yes to something and you figure it out on the go. We kind of laughed always saying we're building a plane as we fly it, right? But you also need to have resources to do that. So in that very moment, that wasn't accounted for, so it was a mistake. But that mistake cost me and many other people in my department a burnout. And I always say, like, again, working hard is one thing, but when you're set up to fail, meaning no matter how hard you work, you're not gonna succeed, and you can see that. And on top of it, you lack support that you would need not to drown. That's when that becomes very disheartening. And you burn out more out of that than the sheer amount of work I was doing. I was working really hard. I was working, you know, pretty much from dusk to dawn, no weekends, barely time for my family. So there were moments where that was a little bit too much as well. But I think what burned me out most is that there was no light in the tunnel and there was nobody there to a point, it changed, it changed, but to a point at that point to help and kind of pull me out, not just me, but pull me out, right? So that created the burnout. Now the company realized its mistake and they changed it, and then that's what made me stay a few years longer. So, so you know, that's that's the story.

SPEAKER_00

Um and what were the kind of early signs of burnout that you ignored?

SPEAKER_01

Uh well, definitely physical tiredness, uh, just being tired, right? Like um second working long hours and not sticking maybe with my routines or so on. But the other signs that I haven't really experienced until that moment was moments where sometimes I would sit in front of my laptop, you know, there was meeting after meeting, million emails in my inbox, everybody screaming urgent, and me being completely paralyzed, not knowing where to move. And that's not like me. I am a person who's like, okay, this is what we gotta do. Here is the goal, figure out the path, let's go. Up to that point, I never experienced that. And after that, I haven't either. Where you're just so paralyzed because, first of all, it's just fire after fire. So you're in this firefighter in the middle, saying, like, okay, where do I start? Like it's almost seems impossible. And second of all, with the fear from okay, no matter what I do, I know I'm gonna get slapped for it. Not literally, but like, you know, I'm gonna get slapped for it. So, like the fear of again getting pounded by others. Um, so that was a sign that kind of sort of woke me up. And then another sign that woke me up was again a moment where I was sitting in my dining room and my son, who was at that point maybe four, four or five, coming into me, me sitting, being a bit of, I don't know what's going on, what do I do? And him coming and asking for some help. I don't remember what that was. And I'm like, sweetie, I can't. And that was after hours, right? Like that wasn't even that was on my own time, me trying to work, right? So those were the two big, like, okay, this is not normal. You should this is not a situation, you should be continuing.

SPEAKER_00

Do high achievers actually create their own burnout sometimes?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think so. I think so. We do because we want to achieve, right? Like we want to, we're committed to the result, and we go after it very hard, right? So, of course, I learned my lessons, like I'm actually grateful for that burnout experience. And mine wasn't, you know, I didn't end up in a hospital, it didn't affect my mental health on the long term and whatever, right? It was more of a couple months. I figured it out, I got over it, I started acting a different way, right? I took some high performance coaching on top of it, anyhow. So, so I had that wake-up word, then I realized, okay, well, I can go on like this, and it's not gonna help me be successful in whatever I'm doing, anyways, because when you're tired, when you're in more of a firefighting survival mode, you actually don't have access to your critical thinking and being creative and solution-based. You're just reacting, so you're acting on your basic instincts, which are not always the best solutions. So, so ultimately it hurts you as well in being that. But I I can see how as high achievers we can get ourselves there. But I always say we just need to learn, right? Like nobody is perfect, we all make mistakes, we all get ourselves into situations that maybe in a hindsight, we're like, oh, I was stupid, I shouldn't have. And at the same time, it's okay. As long as you learn from it and you get better for it, you know, it's fine. It's when you repeat the same pattern over and over and over again. That's when the problem starts.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you have to be aware of that. What is the biggest mind shift, Maggie, from being from going from a corporate leader type role to an entrepreneur?

SPEAKER_01

Um what's I don't know if there's one, but one that I love that is scary. That it's scary and scares a lot of people, but I personally, as much as it's scary for me, I love it. Is that I am relying on me, and I'm deciding that creative agency where I get to decide exactly what I'm doing and how I'm doing, and I have nobody else to blame for the results I create. Let's say if I'm not happy with them, then me. Right? Because in corporate There was always like, oh, somebody above me made those decisions. So I can blame them, feel a bit victim-y, but for me it was I'm done. I don't want to, you know, my my my reasoning even to start a business is I'm done implementing people's decisions where they haven't consulted me, and I can see all the flaws and all the holes in those decisions. And then I'm stuck doing things, right? And like burning out, let's say. So I'm like, no, I want to make my own decisions. I'm not pretending they're gonna be always perfect, but at least I have myself to blame, and I'm in charge of fixing them as quickly as I can or as I want to, right? Where it's incorporation, there's process, and there's, you know. So so I would say that was one of the biggest, not the only, but one of the biggest.

SPEAKER_00

What if discipline wasn't about punishment, but about unlocking your best self? I spent two and a half years writing discipline for greatness, because discipline changed my life. And I know it can change yours too. This isn't theory. Inside you'll find real practical steps you can use immediately to focus better, build stronger habits, reduce stress, accomplish your goals, and bring more balance to your life. Whether you're trying to get healthier, improve your career, or simply feel more control. This book gives you the framework. Start today. Grab your copy of Discipline for Greatness at JoeyPins.com slash book. Thank you. It's a big shift there because there's there's certain comfort and there's uh you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

When you're in that boss to complain the boss to complain the boss's boss, right?

SPEAKER_03

It wasn't me.

SPEAKER_01

That wasn't me, and and your paycheck still comes, right? Right. Uh whether you deliver or not, whether things go right or not, like you have that that that cushion, let's say, right, of safety, if we want to call it. Uh now, you know, nobody's ever guaranteed that you'll have a job forever and that your business you're in is not gonna go through a structure, but let's say that short-term cushion and safety is there. Whereas in in the entrepreneurship, there's the uncertainty of maybe how much income I'm gonna go this month and that month, especially in the first few years, right? Until you get to a certain point where, you know, you have contracts, whatever, depending on the business. So that uncertainty creates the illusion that you're not safe. And there's a lot of minds at work that has to happen and a lot of resilience and emotional capacity you have to build to be okay with it and say, like, I create my own safety because I'm in charge. Right? I can go and create opportunities like today, right now. But it's very different than oh, I'm just, you know, I'm a role, I have this. Even if I'm a leader, right? I have a role. Here's my list of responsibilities. My boss gave me a task, I just don't. Or I take an initiative occasionally when I feel like it. Here it's like you take initiative 100% of the time.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you don't have an ad.

SPEAKER_01

I love that. You don't have an but personally I love that.

SPEAKER_00

Right. Yeah, I've been used to that my whole life. And I I have friends in the corporate world, and I just I marvel over kind of uh how different, how different it is. Are there kind of patterns that sabotage new entrepreneurs' thinking patterns, you think?

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah, oh yeah. There is a lot, but let's start with the biggest one and let's start with new entrepreneurs, so like starting.

SPEAKER_03

Sure.

SPEAKER_01

A lot of them go into business because they have an idea or they have a passion or they have a skill set that they can help people with. So they go into that with that employee mindset. Oh, I'm just gonna go and help people, but they've not realized in the beginning that as you start entrepreneurship, there's a lot of other roles you have to do. And the first one is marketing and sales. Without it, you don't have clients. Without clients, you can use you know your skills of helping them, and you're not making money. So there's a lot of sometimes I talk to your entrepreneurs and they're like, Well, but I didn't sign up for marketing and sales. I'm like, Yeah, you did. It's like you did. And you started a business whether you realized it or not. You did. It's kind of like you know, you have a child and you say, Well, I didn't sign up for diapers and sleepless night. Yeah, you kind of did. You might not like it, right? So, like shifting the whole thing around marketing and sales. Oh, I don't want to be salesy, I don't want to be pushy, or even sometimes I speak with more established entrepreneurs. They're like, I'm not salesy, I don't sell, I just have conversations. Well, you are selling. Call it what you want, call it what you want, but ultimately you're selling. And truly, a good selling is a conversation. That's right. Exactly what it means.

SPEAKER_00

Relationship building, yes.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. You're building a relationship, you're figuring out the needs of your clients and the challenges, and you know, how and how you can help them, but it's still sales. So I would say those are some of the biggest ones.

SPEAKER_00

There's more, but those ones are yeah, it it is a big shift. And so let's talk about high performance. So, what does it actually mean to be a high performer and and and produce high performance?

SPEAKER_01

So, how I define it might be different than anybody else, but how I define it is you think, you feel, and you operate at your best. Now, that best can be different, different days, but if you cultivate that, your best at some point might or your worst day as a high performer will be still way better than somebody who is not. So, if you think about a pro athlete, let's say Marker Jordan, I used to play a bit of basketball as well. My best. So, if you think about Michael Jordan, even mid his career, maybe he wasn't at his best, but he was still a pro athlete, his worst day in basketball was still way better than my best as a school, you know, like recreational basketball player, right? Because of the training he put in, the level he got himself into. So it's the same, even as a business owner, as a human being, if I think and feel at my best, meaning if I have some and operate in my best, if I have some practices and habits where I cultivate more of a positive mindset, more of a emotions that are calm, grounded. I don't have to be excited all the time. I don't have to be happy and joyful all the time, but I'm also not in fear and jealousy, kind of like very negative emotions that again don't shut your brain down a little bit, right? And and and consume a lot of your energy that you need for making decisions in your business. Right. So if I'm operating it more at a calmer state and I don't sweat the small stuff and I take care of myself when my energy levels throughout the day stay high when I'm not getting a slump or two or I don't want to do anything, I will make better decisions in my business. That will create better results. If I know how to manage my time really well, not time, but my focus, right? I can I'm very clear where I'm going in my business, I can prioritize well, I can balance the short-term needs of my business with my long-term needs in my business, and I'm very effective at doing things that need to happen because I have skills. I am also gonna accomplish way more in a day than somebody in a week. Right? Because what creates speed and effectiveness? It's skills. So if I'm a poor swimmer, it will take me an hour to swim a kilometer. If I'm a great swimmer, it will take me two minutes. And what is it? Skills, technique, right? So skills. So if I when I start my entrepreneurship and I actually realize, hey, like, yeah, I do need to learn marketing and sales. Maybe I don't have background in it. It's fine, I can learn it. And I start learning those skills and really focusing on them and mastering, after some time, I'll be better and better and faster and faster. If I don't, if I, you know, resist it and complain about it, I'll just stay mediocre and it will take me forever, and it's not going to be as effective because I'm not only getting faster, I'm getting more effective. Right? So if I'm in the beginning, I remember when I was starting to learn like copywriting and you know, newsletters, emails, and so on. It in English is not my first language. It's sorry, it's my first language by now, but it's not my mother tongue.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_01

So until I started my business, I never written a copy email. Like all I've written were policies, corporate, and emails. That's all I've wrote in English, right? Copywriting, it's a very different thing, very different skill set. So I remember it would take me hours to write an email. And it wasn't even as effective, right? It wouldn't convert that many people. But as I started practicing the skill set and learning and learning, I could cut down hours to 15 minutes, and the effectiveness of the email was much higher as well. And it's because I developed the skill set. So that's one, right? And then the second layer of that, now if I can manage my time really well or my schedule really well, I can accomplish in three hours what somebody is doing over two days. Because not only I have a skill set, but also I have systems and habits that will I'm sitting in front and I'm just boom, boom, boom, boom. This is what I need to do, and you know, a bunch of things are done. Right. So that's what I feel like that's what I define high performer is. And the more you do it, the more of those habits and skills you develop. And that it has to do, it has to be your mind, your body, and kind of like your actions, right? Because it's all connected, the better results you create. And that's how you can also create more of a harmony and not have to hustle. Because what I also find is a lot of entrepreneurs hustle because they don't have the skill set that would save them time or ability to manage their time. And the only thing that they think, well, yeah, if I want to grow, I just need to work harder and more.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, just because you're busy doesn't mean you're working hard.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. And and maybe you're working hard busy, but it doesn't mean that you're moving forward your business as as much forward as you could. Because busy doesn't mean effective.

SPEAKER_00

Right. There's a story of the two lumberjacks where they they produced the same amount, they cut the same amount of wood. Are you familiar with this, Maggie?

SPEAKER_01

I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00

They start at the same time, they both they both cut wood and they end at the same time, and they both cut the same amount of wood. And they notice after a couple days they were cutting the same amount of wood given the same time. But one of the lumberjacks, midday, disappears for an hour. And so after a couple days, the other lumberjack says, How is it possible we produce the same amount of you know wood, but you disappear for that hour? What do you do for that hour? And he goes, Oh, for that hour I sharpened my axe.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So it's you know, taking time, reflect, sharpen, and come back sharper. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You mentioned that you grew up in uh communist Poland, right? Way back then. What what do some of the what do some of the entrepreneurs here in the West miss about entrepreneurship there?

SPEAKER_01

Uh now communist Poland's they didn't have a lot of entrepreneurship.

SPEAKER_03

Right, weren't allowed.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, no, you weren't allowed. What it was, you know, it's so I was 11 when the communists uh collapsed. But from what I remember, so entrepreneurship in terms like wasn't really allowed, other than like small entrepreneurs, like later on. So there were like little store owners, you know, like where you could buy some groceries or flowers or whatever, but ultimately everything was state-owned. Right now, when the communist regime collapsed, I was a child, right? So like I wasn't, it's not like I could capitalize on this. But when the uh uh communist regime collapsed, there was definitely like a boom for starting, you know, new businesses or even take over the state-owned businesses because then privatization came into and so on, right? So now, you know, I haven't lived in Poland for over 20 years, and I'm other than talking to my parents, I'm really not as informed about the Polish economy as maybe I should be. Um, but now there is definitely entrepreneurship is flourishing, and and how different is it from North America? I can't tell you, I'm not sure. Other than like, I know that even my father, let's say, has been an entrepreneur for a while. Uh he he was uh he had his insurance agency, so connected, of course, to to a company, but but on his own, he had a couple of people working for him and and with him. So definitely the taxes, the administration, or the how do you say the um leadership paperwork needed for the entrepreneur? So like the I'm missing a word now. Red tape, red tape. There you go. The red tape is much higher, or at least has been, again, not sure now, uh laws change, but has been much higher than let's say North America, right? So much harder to do a business. Uh, and at the same time, you know, businesses are there. There's a lot of businesses that thrive. My sister had a business um at some point as well in Poland, so so it's not like it's not possible. But maybe the barriers are a little bit higher. There's more of them from the beginning of the case.

SPEAKER_00

Sure. Do you think entrepreneurs want freedom or validation?

SPEAKER_01

Interesting. I think when go for freedom, or at least that's the idea, right? I think that it let especially for me, it was freedom of creativity and choice, or freedom of time, how I manage my time, right? We we have the opportunity to create financial freedom, um, freedom to experiment. So I think we go for freedom. Now, whether we create it or not, that's the whole different story. Because sometimes people get, you know, their own prisoners of their own business, let's say, in terms of time freedom. But but I think we we go more for that than validation. I think you have to be, if you go for validation, you'll you'll quit very quickly. Having a business is very humbling, especially in the beginning, when you're trying to build it from the ground. So I don't think a person who is trying to go for validation will last.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I remember when I first started my just a tech business, just computer support and application development. My friends would say, It must be so nice not having a boss. And I would say, I have more bosses now than I've ever had. Every one of my clients, the vendors, the banks, the even my employees to a certain extent. Please do not go into business thinking you're not going to have any more bosses. That's not the case at all.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. No, I agree. I agree. But people have those ideas, you know, when when you haven't done something, people have the preconceived notions that are usually far from the truth. It happens in parentship, in parenthood, right? People who don't have kids, they have no idea what I think. It's like they're I used to be that like before I had kids, I was very judgy of parents. Now that changes that stops.

SPEAKER_03

It stops the moment you have a job.

SPEAKER_01

But even like in corporate leadership, you know, I I've dealt with people having ideas what it means to be a boss or a leader, that it's so easy and it's so and and they have no idea what it takes, right? Sometimes to be a leader and have more responsibility and all the things that you need to deal with. And at least for me, as a leader, there was a lot of things that I shielded my team from because they had certain goals that they had to accomplish. And my job was for them to have it as easy as possible to accomplish those goals, right? So then our department and our company could flourish. So there's a lot of things that I was just shielding them from, right? So people very often people who don't do what you're doing and never done this have a very skewed idea of what it takes, and they just see the maybe the berks of it, but not everything else that goes into it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Now you've got an excellent podcast. What do you want the listeners to come away with?

SPEAKER_01

From my podcast or my podcast, yeah, Diamond Effect is my podcast, and they can find it anywhere. So my idea there is really help business owners with the aspects of their business that is whatever. Sorry, my idea for them is really help them grow as leaders. Okay. I believe that um your business cannot outgrow you, right? So if you're a business owner, you're the leader of your business. So your thinking, your level of knowledge and skill set influences your decisions, and your decisions lead to your actions, and your actions produce the result. So if you have certain lacks in your knowledge or skill set, or you know, we all have blind spots, say business owners, if I don't grow myself, I won't see how I can better my business in different ways, right? So I would just try working harder and longer because I don't see an option of doing something different. So you have to grow first for your business to catch up. I have to start making different decisions and think about things differently in order for my business to results to shift, kind of like Albert Einstein says, you know, you can't solve the problems with the thinking that created them. So I guess my goal for the podcast is that like give them a different perspective, give business owners give them a different perspective, make them think about different aspects of their business differently, grow as leaders, you know, realize that maybe I should look into that, or maybe I should develop that skill, or this is the way I can think about my marketing or my sales or whatever. So that's ultimately that's the goal.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, very good. And you do a really good job with it. Um thank you. Yeah, very great perspective. So I started my business back in the 90s, Maggie, and I was working way too hard and not paying attention to myself and you know, 14, 16-hour days, you know, this whole burnout we talked about earlier. And next thing I know, I'm in front of the doctor. She tells me I'm at 340 pounds. So I had gained all this terrible amount of weight, terrible. And she tells me if you don't lose this weight, you're not gonna see your daughter graduate. So my daughter was just born, scared the life out of me. You know, the decisions I make don't just affect me, they affect much more than me. Yeah. So next six, seven months, lost about 120 pounds, kept it off. You can't look at these things as finishing line, right? These are lifelong changes. And when I tell people this, they always say, What's your secret? What you do? And I say, There's no secret, just discipline, right? Focus, routine, willpower. How does discipline, given your background, how does it play a role in your life?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I I think it well, it's everything. And as you say, there's there's more to discipline because I don't think discipline is just willpower, right? Discipline is one knowing what you want and why, right? So for you, it was very strong why. If I don't do something, I'm not gonna see my children graduate. It reminds me of my dad who's been smoking since he was like, I don't know, 16. And he was always for years and years saying, wow, I know I should stop, it's not good for me, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it never happened. It was just like he was changing the cigarettes and maybe a little bit less here and there, but like it went on forever. And then at some point, when his grandchildren started coming to life from me and my sister, and he realized that by smoking I'm shortening my life, and I'm not gonna see my grandchildren grow like that.

SPEAKER_00

Wow. Right?

SPEAKER_01

So, like, we have to have a strong why. Like, why is it? Why do I want to pursue whatever that I want to do, right? Lose weight, go after this business. Like, what is it? Why gives us at least the motivation not only to start, but also to keep going when it gets hard, right? And then, as you say, having discipline to start, but I am a big believer on establishing habits to then make it easy to continue to the point where it just becomes who you are, and then it's just easy to continue. So, for me, for example, and I do that like even with my clients. I was just talking to one of my clients on Monday, and she was like, We've established a little bit of a morning routine for her when she goes for walks, it helps her to think about her business. You know, of course, it helps with the health and feeling better. So just all these benefits. And it's been, you know, a few months when she's doing it, and she was telling me on Monday, you know what? I'm at the point where my body is demanding it. It's like it became of who we are because when you have a business, when you have a habit, it's like I always say it's like brushing your teeth. If you forget to brush your teeth in the evening because you went to bed and you were tired, guess what? Your brain was like, hello, get your ass out. Brush teeth, and you do routine because routine is broken, right? So, so that so discipline is a bunch of things, but you it starts with really knowing like why am I doing it? Because if why is not strong enough, you'll fall off at some point. It will get hard, always gets hard when you build something and do something that's maybe not pleasant to you in the moment, right? You might get to like it later, but in the moment it's not. If you don't have a strong why, or it's not tied to your identity, who you are, you're gonna fall off. And no amount of willpower will like get you through it. So this was like a bunch of things. But I definitely like I think uh part of it I developed through my you know circumstances and and childhood. One, my dad being pretty demanding, and you know, my parents divorced, but like I was 11 again. I think they divorced like when commonist regime allowed them collapse that it allowed to do because you couldn't divorce that wasn't allowed, but anyhow, so my dad was always like, okay, you have to study. I'm the oldest daughter, right? So you have to study, you have to be a good student. So he would sit with me and make me do homework, but not only what was given, but like extra, right? So I remember when I was like, sit and cry and like, oh my god. But what it gave me is knowing that I can do hard things, I can do the things that I don't like for a result or purpose that ultimately I know is good for me. So that's one thing that I definitely took out of my childhood. And then the other thing is just, you know, in the comments regime, there was a lot of things that you wanted that you just couldn't have, like good sweets or tropical fruits, or or you had to wait because you know, maybe dad went to Western Germany and it would take three months to get, right?

SPEAKER_03

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01

So being able, learning how to wait for things you want and not having them available no matter what you did, you know, it it allows you to have that delayed gratification, right? To work towards something that's not happening right away. So I think like I definitely through my childhood, there's parts of that that I took that out just because of you know where I was born and when I was born.

SPEAKER_00

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SPEAKER_01

Well, definitely my website, stairway to leadership.com. It's where you know there's more information about me. There's links to my podcast, there's links to my social media. I'm on LinkedIn, Instagram, um Facebook, YouTube, TikTok. Yeah, you name it. I'm there. TikTok is more to um, how do I say, make sure my daughter is doing kids.

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my goodness. That's how I started my TikTok account. My daughter really wanted one. I was like, okay, you can, but I need to see what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00

You gotta get her approval. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

She's doing actually amazing things. Oh, good. It's funny. I could learn from her.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, yes. The youth is smart. I I my daughters are the same way. Maggie, thank you so much for your time, and uh, I look forward to uh maybe meeting you one day.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, definitely. I would love that. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01

Thanks.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you for listening andor viewing Joey Pins Discipline Conversations. Please share this episode with one or two of your friends who you think may benefit from the episode. Our website, www.joeepins.com. There you find lots of resources, and you could join our mailing list. Please follow us on all our social media, Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. Podcast information, the video version of our podcast is on YouTube. Please subscribe. Audio is on all major podcasting platforms. Please follow them. And if you like it, please consider giving five star rating. Would really appreciate that. Thank you again for listening or watching Joey Pin's Disciplined Conversations.