Joey Pinz Discipline Conversations

#865 Jennifer Roy: From COO to CEO: Leading with People First 🚀

• Joey Pinz • Episode 865

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What does it really take to scale a company without losing your people, your culture, or your margins?

In this episode of Joey Pinz Conversations, we sit down with a CEO who made the leap from COO to leading one of the top MSP organizations in Canada—sharing real insights on leadership, growth, and what most companies get wrong.

From building high-performing teams to navigating tough leadership transitions, this conversation goes beyond theory. It’s about real-world execution, accountability, and making decisions that actually work.

Jennifer also opens up about her personal transformation, losing over 160 pounds, and how small changes compound into massive results—both in business and life.

 

🚀 Top 3 Highlights

✅ Why “any growth” is NOT good growth—and how to protect margins

✅ The difference between managing tasks vs. leading people

✅ How small daily changes lead to massive long-term transformation

 

💡 If you're leading a team, scaling a business, or rethinking growth strategies—this episode delivers practical, honest insight.

 

 

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Join us for enlightening discussions that spark growth and exploration. 

Hosted by Joey Pinz, this Discipline Conversations Podcast offers insights and inspiration.

 

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Discipline. How does it play a role in your life? How does it drive your decisions? Do you have too much or too little? Every profession, hobby, or passion requires a level of discipline. I have used it in weight loss (+130 lbs.), family death, and found a +25 year business. Am I an expert? Absolutely not! Please join me, as I speak to interesting people and find out how discipline affects their career, life, goals, and decisions. Join me as I talk to interesting people in: #Health, #Fitness & #Wellness: #Business, #Technology & #Science: #Art & #Culture: Website: joeypinz.com All social media @TheJoeyPinz Do you wish to Sponsor? Get the prospectus here: www.joeypinz.com/sponsor

 

 

 

 

 

Episode Links:

 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jen-roy-ops/

https://yournucleus.ca

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SPEAKER_00

Jennifer Roy. What a great conversation with Jennifer. I just got to know Jennifer. She's uh CEO of a very large uh MSP uh nucleus in Vancouver, who's part of the Lyra Evergreen family, I believe the largest MSP platform system in the world. But her transition from COO to CEO, the previous CEO had had uh wanted her to move up to that. Even though they were her counterparts, her peers had longer tenure. Uh she was able to make that transition. We talk about that a lot. I love talking about leadership versus management. You know, we need both. What's the difference? We opened the conversation, of course, uh with LA and her relationship to it and how it helps her and how it frames things. The conversation on art versus science with her was very interesting too, by the way. And of course, discipline. Uh, just as a teaser, she lost more weight than I have. Absolutely incredible. Jennifer, I thank you so much, and I thank you for watching and listening. Hi, I'm Joey Pins, and here's my 45-second introduction. After starting my business in the 90s, I started developing poor habits of eating in my diet because of working way too much. Before you know it, I found myself 340 pounds. The doctor told me if I don't lose the weight, I'm not gonna see my daughter graduate. Took the next seven months, lost 130 pounds. People think there's some secret. Ask me, how'd you lose that weight? Like there's some secret. There is no secret. How'd I lose the weight? Just one word. Discipline. I've had other successes in life, and I attribute them all to discipline. Now I'm not the king of discipline, but I believe that it can help all of us. Friends, colleagues convinced me to start a podcast. Podcast Mission, how do we better ourselves and society? I talk to interesting people in health, fitness, sport, wellness, business, technology, science, art and culture. And I eventually asked them how discipline plays a role in their life. Podcast Vision, growth through learning from others. Time I asked that you be yourself. You're the best at it. So what is it about adult ballet? Do you not like child child ballet?

SPEAKER_01

I do. Uh my daughter does ballet, but I I just only do adult ballet.

SPEAKER_00

I see. I see. And how long have you been doing this?

SPEAKER_01

Uh we're like ballet six months. I started with tap classes. So I used to uh I don't drink alcohol anymore, but I used to drink alcohol. And so me and my girlfriends would go, we'd have a glass of wine, we go to adult tap class. Um, and I was always like a step or two behind everybody. And I was like, man, like tap is really hard. Um, and it is really hard, don't get me wrong. Um, but then I stopped drinking alcohol and realized I was actually much better at tap without that glass of wine. Um so I do tap classes and I do ballet classes, but I prefer ballet over tap. Um I feel like I get uh I'm not super graceful, so I feel like I challenge myself a little bit more in ballet.

SPEAKER_00

In this fast-paced MSP landscape, how do you stay ahead? Introducing MSPinfluencer.com, your ultimate hub for MSP news, insights, and community connection powered by Forza Dash. More than 75,000 MSP subscribe to our MSP Influencer multi-weekly newsletter. Staying informed and ahead of industry trends. Tune in to Emerging Podcast with Joey Pitt and leading MSP voices, offering essential tips, powerful insights, and X4 multiple offer live craft MSP leaders, delivering crashes, action strategies, deliver X industry leading force dash MSP Influencer, recognizing leadership. Join thousands of MSP professionals who trust MSP Inspencer.com to grow their business and expand their networks. MSP Inspencer.com, where today's MSP leaders connect, collaborate, and conquer, all powered by the ForceDash platform, helping MSP vendors work effectively with MSPs and helping MSPs grow. Was the wine slowing you down, or was it you couldn't focus?

SPEAKER_01

I think it was slowing me down. Like I think my my feet would know what to do, but my brain just wasn't fast enough.

SPEAKER_00

Oh. And it did you stop drinking because you wanted to be a better dancer, or would you just became a dance better dancer and stopped drinking?

SPEAKER_01

Just for health reasons. I just um um I've I've in the last five years focused a lot on health and fitness, and alcohol was kind of the last little bit to say I don't need this. And uh, you know, once I hit mid-40s, the the two-day hangovers over one glass of wine were a real thing. So yeah, I just thought it's not worth it. So I I gave it up, yeah, two and a half years ago.

SPEAKER_00

And you can you can get up on your toes when you ballet like that.

SPEAKER_01

No, I don't do point. That's point. I do not do point. I use ballet slippers, not point shoes. So my daughter can do point. Um, but no, I've never been trained in that. You have to actually train significantly for point on your I didn't know there was a difference, so that's called point ballet. Point ballet, yes.

SPEAKER_00

Interesting. It seems like there was a one of the Klitschkoff brothers, one of the boxers, like famously his father, who was you know, was a boxing legend, had him stop boxing at like I I I could get this wrong, but uh in adolescence, 12 or 13, and made him ballet dance for two years. And he came back being the most graceful boxer just because he he didn't understand how his body could move, and it just you know ballet dancers move very differently and they just understand the discipline of their body much better, but it helped him immeasurably in his boxing career.

SPEAKER_01

I am not surprised. I am not surprised. I mean, uh, you learn how to be more light on your feet, and your balance is different. There's there's a lot, and you use muscles that you didn't even know you had. Um ballet looks very effortless, it is so bloody hard. So I feel like I get a full body workout going to ballet class.

SPEAKER_00

And is it always classical music? Can you ballet to pop and hip hop?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, yeah, you can you can ballet to everything. Yeah, yeah. It just that's teacher preference.

SPEAKER_00

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01

And what the difference between a good teacher and a bad teacher in ballet is um I would say a teacher that can actually demonstrate, not one that's like you know, has done it years and years ago, but they're not able to actually show you what you're doing, especially for an adult learner. Um, I need somebody that's still like there's they're still able to do the moves themselves.

SPEAKER_00

So do it like this. Yeah. Yeah, and then they demonstrate. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And you still do it. Good for you. Do you do you compete? Do they compete to belly compete?

SPEAKER_01

They do. We have we have adult teams that compete. Um, I did audition for the uh the tap competitive team, and I was able to make the team, however, my travel schedule with work meant I had to withdraw because I would have missed too many, like I would have been a bad team member. So I don't do it competitively. I was doing it for my daughter just because she really wanted me to go on stage and do it competitively. So I said, sure, we'll give it a whirl. Uh and I auditioned, but I didn't, I didn't end up doing it. Just travel schedule was too hectic and I would have let the team down by not being in enough practices.

SPEAKER_00

What does travel do for you for your perspective as CEO?

SPEAKER_01

I think it's a a, you know, it's a number of things. One, I've got a really cool network of peers that I can ask questions, both with Lyra, but also, you know, with other MSPs across across the across the country, well, really across the nation. Um, because, you know, I I meet people everywhere and I've learned so many things. One of the things I implemented this last year at Nucleus, I learned from an MSP in the UK. Um, and that was, you know, we were advocates of disc profiling, but they changed all their team background um to show their disc colors so that you would know what kind of communication style to talk to the person in. And I was like, that's brilliant. That's something I learned from a random MSP owner in the UK that if I wasn't in an event, I wouldn't have learned. Um, so I think there's a ton of knowledge sharing, which is really cool. Um, there's obviously vendor partnerships that you you make on these trips. There's education. Um, and then of course, brand exposure, brand awareness. Um, I get a chance to partner with with a lot of the uh the Lyra folks. So it's you know, it's multifaceted how I see the travel benefiting.

SPEAKER_00

The three things that turned my my MSP, my business around, I'm not good enough to give advice, Jennifer. But the three things that have were first was the peer groups. Then it was uh the peer groups, an entrepreneurial system, you know, get one, adopt one. And then third, it's just don't be, you know, be humble enough to hire a coach. But as far as the peer groups, it just like you said, it took me away from the business. Sometimes it's hard to work on the business when you're in the business. And when you're away and you're hearing from others, it can be very isolating being the CEO, right? Because you you can't confide in in in so many people and it's uh it can be lonely, but going away, talking to peers really helps build perspective. That's what I enjoyed most about the peer groups and traveling.

SPEAKER_01

For sure. Yeah, the I would say like you can't bitch downwards, so it can be lonely on the top, right? Um, it's really important that you have that peer group. So I'm really fortunate I'm part of a couple of different peer groups. Um, so I'm really fortunate because I do have the ability to have conversations and different perspectives, or someone sometimes to tell me your expectations are too high. You need to taper those down a little bit because I do have some really high, lofty goals. And so it's it's good sometimes for me to have a peer call me out and say, Yeah, not realistic, Jen. Like take that back a little bit and you'll be in a better spot.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, we had red BS flags, right? And uh yeah, we'd be presenting and somebody would kind of throw that up and say, No, no, no, no, no, no. That's what you're saying. You did that last quarter, and you know, it that didn't work. And yeah, it's it's good when when they're brutally honest with you like that. Yeah, I've I remember going to some meetings thinking, I haven't met all my goals. They are gonna give me hell. And you know, that's good. They're they're you know, they're holding accountable, it's great.

SPEAKER_01

For sure. I I'm a big fan of being held accountable. I think everyone is like when it when you actually peel back everything, everyone wants to be accountable. They want to know what the goal is and they want to understand how to reach it and be held accountable to it. So I kind of like when I know I'm going into a hard conversation with peer group. I would rather them hold me accountable and give me the tough love that I deserve than go in and be like, it's okay, you didn't get balls because it's not okay. If I didn't achieve it, I didn't achieve it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, when when are you not like in C CEO mode? Like what helps you reset when you're on the dance floor?

SPEAKER_01

Uh well, I I also do yoga. Um, I really like hot yoga, so I go to hot yoga a couple times a week. Um, that's you know, that's kind of my place to like disconnect and and relax. And um, I try to meditate every morning as well, um, even if it's you know very brief. Um but meditation I think is really important to to kind of just reset before you start your day.

SPEAKER_00

How long have you been meditating?

SPEAKER_01

Um about five years.

SPEAKER_00

Was it difficult to kind of separate your yourself from the your thoughts in the beginning?

SPEAKER_01

Oh man, it was terrible. Um, I I gave up at least a dozen times before I was like, no, I gotta try again, gotta try again, gotta try again. And now, again, some days are better than others, um, depending on what's going on, you know, both personally and professionally, but I try to make that space um as often as I can because I think it it just puts you in a better perspective to kind of deal with curveballs.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, the analogy of you know, looking at clouds and they're passing by, those are your thoughts and you're looking at them, or looking at traffic while you're sitting on the side and you know, the cars are your thoughts. Those are good analogies, but it's sometimes just hard to actually do. I remember when I first started that that was the biggest thing. And then you kind of ask, Am I doing this right? Am I doing this right? And then eventually you just gotta kind of keep at it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. I I think it's it's important to find what works for you. I also like I try journaling as well, uh, because that's a good way for me to like get my thoughts down um and and kind of put them somewhere where they've been, you know, they've been dealt with and they're and then I'm able to kind of start start the day or are usually a journal at night, so it's a good way to finish the day and like go to bed. I've journaled, I'm my thoughts are down, my brain is clear, I can go to sleep.

SPEAKER_00

You journaling pen to paper or are you typing?

SPEAKER_01

Pen to paper. I'm old school. I go into meetings still with a notebook.

SPEAKER_00

Me too. I I can't help it. I just write whenever I'm talking or listening. I don't know what it is, I don't know where I got it from, but it's darn it, it's not leaving. Even with all these devices now. I have a device that sits on my lapel, and I was at a meeting, I was away at uh an event last week, and I would just have it record everything. And it does make me a little, I don't want to say lazy, but I do see myself taking a little less notes because okay, I've got backup here. Let me just get the really, really high points, you know, on paper, but I still need to write.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'm I'm a big I I find I retain information more if I write it down. If I see it. Yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, if I see it.

SPEAKER_01

There's a correlation there for me.

SPEAKER_00

You went from COO, chief operating officer to CEO. How was that transition?

SPEAKER_01

Well, it was, I'm gonna say it was it was easy and not easy, and I'll explain that a little bit. So um I was chief operating officer for just over two years before Martin DeRossier asked me to um fill in as CEO. He he was moving up to the Lyra level and and asked me to take over his seat. Now, what was not easy is is Martin had been CEO for a decade at Nucleus. Um, and those are big shoes to fill, number one. But number two, all of the leadership team is more tenured at Nucleus than I am. So most of them have been with Nucleus 10 plus years. Um, so the fact that I was asked instead of these more tenured individuals, um, I knew was going to be somewhat of a challenge. Uh and I knew I was gonna get things like, well, Martin liked it done this way. And Martin and I are very different leaders. So there was, you know, it was easy in terms of I knew the business, I knew the players, I wasn't walking in um blind to a lot of a lot of things because I had already been at nucleus for for over two years. But what was difficult was just having who were my once my peers now report to me. Um, and also, you know, adapting what had been 10 years of legacy leadership into my style of leadership, which again is is just very different than Martin's. So um, you know, overall it's been great, but the first couple of months were definitely, you know, hard. I remember our first um our first strategic planning session or our quarterly meeting with the leadership team. Uh, and I'd shared this with Martin before I did it, but on on my my slide um for the you know, for the the executive planning session that we did, one of my slides said, Martin, who? And I said, Martin's a legend, but he doesn't work here anymore. So we're not referring to anything Martin used to do um because that kept being what what I would hear back from the team was like, oh, well Martin wants us to do it this way. And I'd be like, it's new leadership. We're not doing it the way Martin wants to do it, we're gonna do it the way Jen wants to do it, or collaborately the way we want to do it as a group. Um so it was it was a challenge at first, but it it's been very, very good.

SPEAKER_00

And how did you work on those relationships that were once your peers and were more tenured there than now you know they're reporting to you? What do you what's your approach there? How do you smooth that out?

SPEAKER_01

Well, I started by having really candid conversations. So Martin informed everybody that I was gonna be the new CEO, and then I booked one-on-one dinners or lunches with every single member of the leadership team and just had candid conversations about it. Like, tell me how you're feeling, be honest. Um, I'm not a super emotional person, so I think everyone knew they weren't gonna hurt my feelings by being blunt or direct. Um, but we were then able to have kind of just more frank conversations about it. Uh, and you know, some people talked about the fact that like they were, you know, they were like, well, why wasn't I asked? Um, you know, and obviously that was a Martin question, but I was able to give them my perspective on why they weren't asked and what I thought that they still need to do in terms of growth. So I was able to build kind of like some trust and rapport based on having candid conversations. And then from there, what I did is really just work with the team to show them I was there to support them that um, you know, I wasn't gonna flip everything around. Yes, we were gonna do some things different, but I wasn't gonna flip everything around. You know, things that were working well, we were gonna continue to have those work well. But things that maybe needed some fine-tuning, we were gonna dig into those together. And then the other piece that I did is is, you know, if I said I was gonna do something, I ensured I followed through. I really wanted to build trust and have them know that I was I was there to advocate for them and support them and work with them. So um, you know, I'm part of Evolve uh with ConnectWise and I have to send them a leadership survey every quarter to say, you know, how I'm doing. And, you know, I I'm I'm really pleased they all, you know, they know it's anonymous and they all score me quite quite high on it. And I think I've done a really good job of building their trust um and going from peer to um to being their manager.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and the the the real thing is the previous CEO selected you. I don't think there wasn't like there's I'm gonna select five of you, fight it, fight it off. I mean, that's a bad way to do it, right? So he's the one who selected you. So, you know, you're accepting this, and it's you know, that's that's the real premise of everything. If you really liked him, you really loved the way he did it, then you respect his decision to choose me. Don't look at it as something bad on you. It's just really, really uh complimentary to you and to the organization. It's the best fit for the employees, for the vendors, for the clients, etc.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and I think that they just needed a little bit of time to come to that. And now, like if I think, you know, if anyone asked anyone on my team, um, they wouldn't have any hesitation to say that they're they're happy with what Martin's choice was at the time. But at the you know, in the moment, it's hard, I think, especially for really tenured leaders, to say, you know, why her and why not me? Um, and I think that's normal.

SPEAKER_00

So as a COO, as an operating officer, I mean, that's your background. So do you tend to lean on the new COO a little bit more because that's what you know best, or do you find yourself doing that, or do you pull yourself away from there and try to now CEO is you're you're you're watching everybody, you're the overseer of everything. So it is it difficult not to kind of focus on that a little bit more since that's your discipline.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I never actually replaced the COO role when I got promoted. So what I did instead is I moved a director of client success into a VP of operations. And so I work really closely with him and I'm grooming him into you know a COO. And he knows that that's his, you know, his trajectory and our plan. Um, but I never replaced it. So my hands are pretty heavy still in operations, absolutely, because I'm comfortable with it, also because it's a little bit of my baby and I wasn't ready to let it go. Um, and I really wanted to work with him and develop him versus hiring externally a COO to come in and to take that. And I knew he still had some development, he wasn't quite there yet. Um but that being said, like like you said, my hands are kind of in every piece of the business. So um right now I'm I'm actually recruiting for a CRO because our VP of growth was promoted to another Lyra operating company as CEO. So I helped um navigate that transition. So I'm I'm right now wearing COO, CEO, and CRO hat. Um so having a little bit of a little bit of fun, but we're we're really close on on pulling the trigger on a new CRO. So that that hat will come off soon, which I'm more comfortable with that hat coming off. I'm I'm better at the the COO than CRO.

SPEAKER_00

You mentioned Lyra. So Lyra is the parent company that that bought so so you as a CEO, you have to kind of manage down and manage up. I mean, that takes a lot of a lot of time and a lot of discipline. It's very different conversations, it's very different meeting sets. How is that to manage?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean, it's to be honest, um, the way like the how the structure works is there's all the operating companies. I believe there's 115 of us today. So globally, we are you know the largest kind of MSP if you if you combine us all together. And then Lyra is the mid co. Um, so we all report in up through Lyra, and then the private private equity firm is Evergreen. So Evergreen owns us. Um, and it is decentralized. Um, and it is you know quite decentralized to be. Really honest. So while I report into Lyra and there is that you know managing up as well, it is very manageable because we are decentralized. So essentially, as long as I'm responsible for our financial targets and I'm, you know, meeting meeting our budget requirements. And you know, there's a few small pieces like what financial systems we use, because of course they want consolidated financial reporting. That makes sense. Outside of that, there really isn't a lot that I need to do as long as I'm meeting the objectives that I've put in place at the beginning of the year. And I'm too competitive not to meet them. So it's yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I get that sense. You mentioned that you there was somebody a director, you're bringing up the VP, you know, you're kind of grooming them to, you know, uh to go higher. What's the difference, Jennifer, between a manager and a leader?

SPEAKER_01

So a manager is someone, in my perspective, that you know can can manage tasks. Um, they're they're able to look objectively at a task and say, okay, these are the steps I need to do to complete the task. Um, and they might manage people, but they're not necessarily um leading those people. A leader is more somebody that is going to be um inspiring them, looking at what motivates each individual. It's not cookie cutter. I say this to our leadership team all the time. You know, what motivates each member of my leadership team or my executive team is very different. And I have to take the time to curate those relationships, understand what's important to them, and then actually lead them in a way that's going to be inspiring to them because they're not all the same. A manager to me is just someone that it they're going through the motions, they're doing the tasks, not necessarily bad or wrong, but a leader is someone that really gets to understand what is important to each individual and their team and how to motivate them for the best. Um, and they're able to do it not just through, you know, words are, but also through those actions, leading by example. So um, you know, I say all the time, you might be you know, you know, you might be a above a certain task, uh, sorry, beyond a certain task in your career, but you're not above it. So um, you know, as a leader, if my HR team is slammed and they need me to do telephone screens, I don't care that my title is CEO. I'm gonna help out if that's what's needed in my team. That's the difference between being a leader in my perspective and being a manager is you're willing to do what it is required to support your team and inspire them to be their best.

SPEAKER_00

And the world needs both. You know, I've had to have awkward, tough conversations with employees in the hat in the past who were managers and thought they were leaders. Because, like, you know, ego can get involved sometimes, and you know, this is really what a leader looks like, this is what a manager looks like. That can be a very difficult conversation. Have you ever had to have that?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, yeah. I've I've had to have a lot of difficult conversations. It's one of the things that I learned very early in my career is if you avoid difficult conversations, you're just creating a bigger issue for yourself. Um, by tackling those hard conversations and having the things spoken that are uncomfortable, you're actually going to have better success and make your business better, make your employees happier. And you're actually being kinder. So I'm a big Brene Brown fan, clear is kind, having direct, clear conversations is actually kindness. It is not kind to beat around the bush and not tell someone when they're not meeting objectives. I I stand by that wholeheartedly.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, as do I. What do most companies get wrong, Jennifer, about growth?

SPEAKER_01

I think a lot of companies uh get wrong is that any growth is good growth. Um uh, you know, we see a lot of the race to the bottom, uh, and I won't play that game. So I'm not gonna sign a new MSA that's gonna lose me money. Just say that I've I've added top line revenue, but my margins go down.

SPEAKER_00

MSA managed services agreement.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Um, and I take a lot, I take a lot of pride in our financial performance at Nucleus. Um, you know, we have strong margins, strong EBITDA, and really that's because we measure profitability of all of our agreements and we're ensuring that that we're pricing things appropriately to have margin that that makes sense. Um whereas, you know, I see a lot of a lot of businesses that will, you know, they just race to the bottom. It's about any revenue, whether or not that's good revenue or or not. Um, and they're not necessarily measuring the outcomes of that. So, what is your effective billing rate for your clients? What what kind of profit are you making on on the agreements? Is it covering the cost of your tools and and your salaries? It's you know, are your cogs covered? Um, that's I think the biggest mistake I see with growth is is all revenue is good revenue. And it's it's not always the case.

SPEAKER_00

How do you define sustainable growth and fast growth?

SPEAKER_01

Well, I think they can be one and the same. I think you can have fast growth that's that's sustainable and scalable. Um, but I think you need to have process and uh, you know, you have to have process and the right people in place in order for that to happen. And you need to be strategic and be able to be to be uh you know nimble and able to move quickly. Um, so one of the things that I always do is I like to have a nice, you know, bench of candidates available. So if all of a sudden we start signing a lot of deals really quickly, I can quickly bolster our support department because the last thing you want to do is is sell a bunch of agreements and then not have the staff to meet those. And then you're churning clients faster because nobody wants to wait for for response and resolution, right? So it's it's really being able to be super nimble and and get things done quickly that I see you can have fast and and sustainable growth.

SPEAKER_00

Let's go back to leadership. I think I just I just I talk to a lot of small businesses, a lot of MSPs, and um I just see this wide, I'm gonna say spectrum of leadership. The term people first leadership, is it a real thing to you?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. I think you take care of your people, they take care of your business. So um, you know, I'm I make a personal objective to build a relationship with everybody in our company. So we're 93 staff. Um, I know every single person that works in our organization. Um, I have a uh, you know, a the ability to um have personal conversations with them. When they're hired, I do a one-on-one with every single person, whether they're remote or in person. Um just because we, you know, we're spread across across Canada and we have a team in Manila as well. So obviously I can't meet them all in person in their first week, but their first week, they have a one-on-one with me. Um we're an EOS shop, so we have uh L10 meetings. I stop by L10 meetings for all of our different uh pods and departments.

SPEAKER_02

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

And you know, really at least once a month. I just stop by because I want to really think of the people, what's important to the people. Um, and again, the more we can take care of them at Nucleus, the more they're gonna take care of my clients. And if they take care of my clients, that means we're gonna have repeat business. That means I'm gonna have less churn. That means that when I sign new logos, they're gonna do their best to provide a really outstanding experience for our new clients. So, yes, I do think people first leadership extra.

SPEAKER_00

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SPEAKER_01

So at Nucles, we do something a little bit different where we operate in pods, but our pods are intentionally very small and provide then that like intimate boutique kind of experience to our clients and to the team members. So we have a service experience manager. The service experience manager wears the client success management hat as well as a pod manager hat. So they have three or four technicians that report to them and they carry a book of business about 15 to 20 clients. And so they they don't they don't sell any recurring revenue, they don't sell any non-reoccurring revenue, they're relationship-based only. So they're focused on, you know, making sure that the client feels taken care of, and they introduce the client to our business transformation office. And our business transformation office is the one that that sells kind of projects and does their executive business reviews. So they work in conjunction with that department, but really they are not, they are not required to sell any non-reoccurring revenue. They are just relationship. And then they have this you know small group of technicians that report to them and they do all the the ConnectWise board management for their particular pot. So they own a very small book of business. Um, and then when the client comes in and they, you know, they only have three or four techs that work majority of their tickets. So they're able to build a really good relationship with those small techs as well as their service experience manager, and it just ends up feeling like we are a small company, even though we've grown to be you know one of the larger MSPs in Canada.

unknown

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I've seen that pod system work work really well. I think one of my takeaways from the Jeff Bezos book is that one of them was he never had a team that can be fed by more than two pizzas. I think that's similar. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. So we we do try to live by that. Um, you know, there's times that we we break that a little bit. Um but for the most part, that is uh, I would say 95% of our teams. Um, I say if you if you can't if you can't share one pizza, it's it's too big. Um I like small, intimate teams. I think that that's where you get really good collaboration and and teamwork is when you're is when you're small and mighty.

SPEAKER_00

I know your passion, I read about actually women in leadership. Uh how how is that how is that motivated? How have you done in that and what needs to be done there?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so great question. Um so when I started in this industry, you know, just about 15 years ago, there was not a lot of women um in in this space, um, less in leadership and executive positions. Now I was really fortunate because I started my career at fully managed and the president was a woman. Um so I did have somebody that I could look up to and say, okay, that's you know, there there is opportunity for women at the top. Um, but there was not a lot of that. So I go to events and I go to conferences, and um, you know, typically I wouldn't see a lot of people uh that looked like me or or that were, you know, not in marketing or HR or um business development. Uh I didn't see a lot of CEO women, and you still don't see a ton of CEO women, but more and more and more, I think now. So um, you know, I decided when I I, you know, started to elevate my career that I wanted to give back to the community and I wanted to really um try to help support women in this space and make it so that you know I I I hate public speaking. Um it makes me really uncomfortable, but I do it because I want to advocate for other women that they they deserve a voice in this industry. So I do it even though it makes me wildly uncomfortable. Um it's I think really important uh to give back and encourage other women that uh you know anything's possible. I'm also not technical, so you know I struggle a lot with that that whole, you know, I'm not technical. Um and and uh you know I'm a woman in this space. So I feel like I've gotta, you know, I've got to put myself out there a little bit more and make it okay for a non-technical woman leader to be to be in in this channel. So your advice to women that are looking to go into leadership is be brave, speak up, um, put yourself out there even when you feel like you're not necessarily um ready for it. Uh I wish I had done that earlier in my career. Um, I was very fortunate to get an opportunity to work as like I started my career as a support manager at Fully Managed, which was Chris Day's MSP. Um and uh, you know, I started there not knowing anything about managed services, not knowing anything about uh technology. I didn't even know how to upload my own photos to iCloud. Um, so they took a risk on someone who was just really focused on operations. Uh I I've always worked in operations and you know, they wanted someone that wouldn't go down the technology rabbit hole, but instead would focus on client relations and uh employee engagement. So they hired me, um, which was really cool. Todd Todd Kane and Chris Day gave me, you know, an opportunity. And uh and and then from there, you know, I just kind of fell in love with this, the the pace of the managed services uh space. It's just it's it's not for the week apart. And I I you know I like to operate um in in kind of high speed, and so it it just worked really well for me. Um, but I wish I had taken more risks earlier in my career. I wish I had been braver, put my hand forward more often, and said, I'll do that, I'll take on this project or I'll learn. Whereas I I struggled a lot with imposter syndrome for a long time and didn't really feel like I belonged and uh, you know, would wait for someone to ask me to do something versus volunteering. And that would be my my recommendation to women is put yourself out there, be brave, um, and make a name for yourself.

SPEAKER_00

And your advice to men in leadership as well that should be giving women an equal chance, etc., is yeah, I mean, I I would say the same advice to them, right?

SPEAKER_01

Is be brave, put your name forward. Um, but also uh, you know, I would say continue to be allies for the women that you work with. Um, look to see if you can recognize someone or get them a seat at the table if they don't have a seat at the table but deserve one. Um that's I think the biggest, the biggest opportunity for men in this space right now is to look for ways of how can you recognize a woman leader on your team or how can you look for a woman on your team that maybe has the potential to be a leader and and help advocate for them. Uh, because without allies that I've had in my career, I wouldn't be sitting here today.

SPEAKER_00

I recently talked to a US uh military veteran and I said, you know, what can we do as civilians to better support our great veteran community? And the first thing she said was hire us. You know, and I think that's the same there. You know, we have to really, really consider everybody that's going to be, you know, better for the position, regardless, you know, regardless of uh uh of gender, you know, and really, really consider that. Um, also, you mentioned that you're CEO and you're non-technical. I think the just my two cents here, my opinion here, Jennifer. The Google founders never get enough credit for stepping aside a long, long time ago and saying, we don't know how to run this company, we're gonna hire a CEO. The CEO isn't technical, they're just great at being a CEO, and they did that. Most of the other tech companies did not do that, but they don't get enough credit themselves for doing that. And I think that's, you know, the skill set of a CEO is very, very important and doesn't necessarily have to be technical.

SPEAKER_01

Agreed. Um, I I actually challenge our team now with some of our other roles where they're like, well, their tech background is weak. And I'm like, you're talking to the person with the least tech background in our organization. Um, I challenge the team always to think differently, like how important, I get it. You know, you're hiring a level three tech, you need to be pretty darn technical. But if we're hiring, you know, a service experience manager, what's more important? The technical skills or their soft skills, their ability to coach, their ability to be accountable, those are way more important. You can teach them the basics of technology, but you're not going to be able to teach someone how to have good work ethic. So I'm always an advocate of the soft skills culture first for hiring. Tech skills can be second.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you could learn tech skills. You could learn tech skills pretty quickly, you know, especially if you're eager. But you're right. If they don't have good soft skills, I don't know, bedside manor, whatever it's called. Um, you know, that's that's much tougher to teach.

SPEAKER_01

For sure.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, absolutely. Are leaders born or can they be made?

SPEAKER_01

I think they can be made. Um, I think given the right opportunities, leaders can be made for sure. Uh, I think that leaders can be born as well. Um, you know, my mom said I I came out bossy. Um, so I I think, you know, I always knew that I was I was meant to lead somewhere because I was going to be a pain in the ass otherwise. But uh, but I do think I do think leaders can be can be taught for sure. I I think that, you know, if they're given the right opportunity, the right challenges, the right coaching, the right mentorship, you absolutely can can teach someone to be a leader.

SPEAKER_00

I remember one of the IT nations, uh, they got Daniel Pink to speak. And I remember he was up there and he was saying, you know, who makes the better salespeople, introverts and extroverts? And everybody was like, you know, extroverts because they're uh, and his point was it's pretty much split down the middle. You know, uh, it's not that way. Do leaders need to be introverts or extra the term ambivert comes up, right? Extro extrovert when you need it to, and introvert when you don't, and but do they need to be one or the other?

SPEAKER_01

So I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say no again. I don't think you need to be one or the other. I'm an introvert. Um so I I like to say I'm a social introvert. So small groups, I'm great with small groups. Um, but I go to like IT Nation or PAX 8 Beyond, and being on for you know the whole day, I go back to my room absolutely exhausted. Yeah, uh, and then you know, the flight home, my team knows if they're at an event with me on the flight home, I'm probably not sitting with you on the plane because I don't want to talk to anyone. I'm gonna put my headphones on, I'm gonna put a hoodie on, and I am disconnecting. I'm not talking to anybody for the you know two to six hour flight home. Um, so it's I I would say you can be an introvert or an extrovert. I have friends that are CEOs that are extroverts and they're incredible at their jobs. Um, and then I have friends that are introverts and they're incredible at their jobs. Uh, but it's really of being able to understand who your audience is at that time and being able to draw on both, you know, introverted and extroverted energy when you need to.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I'm a bit of an extrovert extrovert, and um, I have very good intranet for introverted friends, and you're yeah, that's the biggest sign right there. After a big event, they need to go to their room and deflate, and they don't want to text, they don't want, you know, they just yeah, that that's it. It's it's it's very interesting how how different we all are. Jennifer, is there something, let's say 10 years ago, that you believed in steadily, that you firmly believed in that you no longer believe now?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, good question. Let me think about that. Okay, so I 10 years ago, had you asked me, can people change? I would have said no. I would have said no, people are hardwired. Um if they, you know, if if they display certain behaviors, that is just a fundamental piece of who they are. Um and you know, you you can't, what is the saying? You can't change a leopard's spot. Spots, yeah, something like that. Um that's what I would have said. Uh I think as I've matured professionally and personally, I believe people can change. And uh that change is is very, very possible if someone actually genuinely wants change. So I think that the the difference is is whether or not the person um that needs to change is is actually uh wanting to do so. And I think if they want to do so, it's entirely possible. Um, but 10 years ago, I would have said, no, people don't change. I I would have been very, very um, you know, bullheaded about that. And I think as I've gotten older, I'm I'm a little bit more understanding that um, you know, people can absolutely change their their their ways, um, given enough, you know, desire to do so.

SPEAKER_00

And how did you arrive this professionally, personally, both? How did you arrive to this?

SPEAKER_01

I think both. Um, I think it's just over experience, experience of of meeting more people, having more conversations, seeing more people um change throughout their lives, you know, people that I've known for 20 years that used to be one way and and are now. A different way. I even look at myself and you know the changes that I've made both personally and professionally in the last 10 years. And I think about, you know, that's only possible because I had a desire to change.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's very interesting. I mean, I like to think, you know, I'm I'm in my uh you know, late uh 50s. I like to think that I can change my mind given on any new evidence, you know. Um, but some people can't and some people can. But yeah, that's a that's a very, very big, big step there. Was it was it a kind of a growing thing, or did something, okay, this person's completely changed. Now I've changed my mind, or was it kind of a uh a slow change to this conclusion?

SPEAKER_01

I would say slow change. Um, it's something that evolved over time. There isn't one situation where I was like, this isn't possible, and then it was light bulb, and I was like, oh, this is possible. It was more of a gradual, and again, I think it's about growth. I think it's about my growth of being able to have a different perspective and see things differently. Um because I think before I was I was maybe a little less mature and not able to see uh the possibility of change. And as I've grown, I've been able to see that people can change.

SPEAKER_00

You know, I uh Jennifer, I want to I want to ask the uh art versus science question because as I sit and talk to you, and you know what I've learned about you, you know, you've got you know, it seems like you put things together, you know, you're a COO, you've got a lot of systems in place, just the way you organize, just the way you talk. Uh, I see a lot of science there. But uh, but you also dance, you know, and you also tap and you and you ballet. How often when making a decision do you rely on the gut? Do you do it in the beginning? Do you do it in the end? Do you do it at all?

SPEAKER_01

So I'm gonna, and this may surprise you, I'm gonna say like 90% of the time it's gut. Wow. Um I I have learned to trust my gut over the years. So I am a big data person. Um believe it or not, I am not analytical. So I I love data, but I if you send me a very comprehensive uh email with a ton of data points and a ton of analytics, I'm gonna open that email 47 times before I read the whole thing because it's gonna be very intimidating. So if you know disprofiling at all, I am a high D and a high I. Uh and I have almost no S and no C in my profile. Um, but I do like making, I like using data to reaffirm my decisions. So, but I I typically go on my gut. Um, I go on my gut for hiring people, I go in my gut for firing people. Yes, you need evidence before you're gonna let someone go, but I typically know this is not gonna work before it doesn't work. Um a lot of the decisions I make, um, you know, I've done a couple of reorgs at Nucleus over the last four and a half years, and they've all been based on some data, but majority of it has been based on my gut feel of what is going to work better operationally, and and it's proven correct every time that we've done the re-org. So um, yeah, I I like data, but it's it's a small fraction of how I make decisions.

SPEAKER_00

And are you able to so you collect all the data, you already have an idea in mind, but you collect the data, you let it firm, then you kind of go with your gut again, it seems. And do you ruminate on that for for a while? Do you does your gut, do you often change your mind with your gut, with given data or given new facts?

SPEAKER_01

Um, very infrequently. I usually will evaluate the risk. So if it's a small enough risk, even if the data doesn't support it, I might say we're gonna go for it anyways. Um, I'm a bit of a risk taker and I operate with a sense of urgency all the time. I have a good friend who says I don't let grass grow under my feet. Um so I won't necessarily use data to remove me from making a decision or stall me in making a decision unless there is too high of a risk. Like if I think the risk is gonna be churn for our employees or churn for our clients, I'm I'm gonna use the data. But if if there is a, you know, if there's a small risk associated with something, I'm gonna go with my gut. Um, and it very, very rarely fails me.

SPEAKER_00

Are you playing worst case scenario often? So the worst, if we can live with the worst case scenario, then let's try it.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Yeah, yeah. So I and that's where I say I evaluate the risk. So what is the risk? And the risk is what is the worst case scenario? And then of course there's always variance after that, right? But what is the worst case? Can I live with the worst case? Or how fast could we fail so we don't hit that worst case if it's the wrong decision? Um, so that's typically what what I try to do.

SPEAKER_00

Jennifer, is there a question you wished more people asked you?

SPEAKER_01

I don't think there is. That's a really I've never been asked that question before. Maybe that's the question that I wish was asked more, um, so that I actually had to think about it. But uh no, I I don't uh I don't I can't think of anything off the top of my head that I wish more people asked me. Um yeah, I can't think of anything.

SPEAKER_00

What's it like to be a woman CEO for a large technical company for the largest MSP? What's it like to be um I get asked that one a lot. So yeah, so yeah, yeah, that's yeah, it's nothing.

SPEAKER_01

Same with I get you know, I get asked a lot about you know work-life balance and how do I manage a family and uh all those things, yeah. Yeah, and I you know, I like to say this thing I manage it the same as male executives do, right? There's no difference.

SPEAKER_00

There's no difference, yeah. Started my MSP back in the 90s, and I was working way too hard and you know, 1460 now days, you're no stranger to this, and putting my health and uh you know, I was in my 20s, I felt like I was invincible, you know, and not eating well and not exercising, you know, just putting the business first, putting business first. I'm sitting in front of the doctor, and she tells me I'm at 340 pounds. So I had gained all this terrible amount of weight, and she says to me, if you don't lose this weight, you're not gonna see your daughter graduate. My daughter was just born, you know, scared the life out of me and uh made me, you know, reevaluate everything. So next six, seven months lost about 120 pounds, kept it off. And when I tell people this, they always say, you know, what's your secret? What you do? And I say, There's no secret, just discipline, focus, routine, motivation. How does discipline play a role in your life, Jennifer Roy?

SPEAKER_01

Well, it's funny that you talk about a weight loss journey because um I actually have a very similar situation. Really? So I in the last five years, I've lost 165 pounds.

SPEAKER_02

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01

That is exactly it. It's discipline, right? So um before I started at Nucleus, I never made time for myself. Um, it was work, family, uh, volunteer work. And that was kind of my life, and there was never anything left over for me. Um, and I made a decision about five years ago that I wanted to change my life. I I wanted, I also have a daughter, and I wanted to be there for my daughter, and I wanted to um be a better spouse to my husband. And um, you know, I thought that the way to do this is is I need to be a little more selfish and take some time for me and focus on health and fitness. So as I, you know, mentioned earlier, um I put a lot of effort into health and fitness in the last five years. I've gotten myself very, very healthy. Uh, and uh, you know, a big piece of that is is discipline. And it's it works out to be not just discipline of you know, your physical body, but discipline of my mind. So making more time for reading important books or articles or um trying to be a lifelong learner because before that would have taken time, I would have thought, away from the business I was running versus it making me better to run the business. So I just try a lot harder to have that balance between um what's important for Jen as an individual, but also what's gonna end up benefiting my business.

SPEAKER_00

165 pounds, my goodness. I mean, that's a whole new wardrobe. That's a whole new, I mean, ever it affects everything that you do.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, it definitely does. It's um, you know, I mean, the shopping was fun, don't get me wrong. I enjoyed that a lot. Um, but yeah, it's it's uh it's funny. It's always funny now when I'm at an event and someone comes up and introduces themselves to me, and I've known them for you know 10 years, and I'm like, no, it's it's still me. I just look a little different. You haven't seen me in five years. So um it's uh, but it's it's been good. And and I now, you know, live a very healthy life, and I'll I'll be around for my daughter, which was my big concern as well, was that I was not going to be around for her.

SPEAKER_00

Had you always considered yourself a disciplined person even as a child? Was it exemplified in the household?

SPEAKER_01

No, no, I I grew up in a lot of chaos, so um, yeah, so discipline was not something that uh was you know was hard hardwired into me. Um I've always been a highly motivated person and I've always been a very competitive person, but definitely not disciplined. So it was something I needed to work on.

SPEAKER_00

And through this weight loss, I mean, did you when you when you came to that, I don't know which one I call it, come to Jesus moment, when you had to lose all the weight, when you decided to, was it I'm going to use discipline, or you just kind of created systems that did it?

SPEAKER_01

I just created systems that did it. Like I started really like with small, like I'm gonna do these small things. Um, and I made small changes. And then those led to more small changes and more small changes to whereas now this is just part of my life. Um, and this is just the norm. Uh and um I feel really good um physically, and so it makes it really easy to be disciplined and sustain it because I feel really good. So that, you know, like I physically feel well and fit, and that makes a difference.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and it's rewarding. It's very rewarding, yeah. And it yeah, just small, you know, no more. I'm not drinking any more calories, right? I remember making that first kind of decision. It's gonna just give me water from now on. So, you know what, I'll have some green tea, but I won't put any sugar in it, you know. So that that alone, you know, okay, now let's just work on the next thing. And it's just, you know, these small little incremental things go a long way.

SPEAKER_01

For sure. I used to have coffee with cream and sugar. Then I went to just cream, then I went to milk. Um, and I still don't get me wrong, you will see me indulge in a dessert here and there, but I usually have a bite or two of it, and then I I I'm done. Um, so I I just try to have everything in moderation and um and it it's worked really well for me.

SPEAKER_00

Has there been something in the last month or so you changed your mind on?

SPEAKER_01

Hmm. Yes. So I mentioned I'm hiring a CRO. Uh, if you asked me a month ago, I would have said, no, I'm gonna continue to do it for a while. Um, and then I realized that by trying to be the hero and take on too much, I'm actually gonna disappoint a lot of people and I'm not gonna do a very good job. And so I quickly came to the realization that the team deserves better, and so I need to invest the time and energy to hire this, the CRO now versus I was gonna wait and do it next quarter and take some time to kind of evaluate all of our processes and procedures around growth and see what I could optimize. And and I realize um I'm doing a disservice A to my team, but also I'm not the best person to do this. I need to hire somebody that's better than me at this, just like I would never lead our technology. I would be terrible at it. I have an incredible CTO. Um, I should have the same mentality around growth.

SPEAKER_00

So I work with a lot of you know small businesses MSPs, and delegation is a tough thing for many of them to, you know, get over, you know. I mean, uh there's a couple that still want to order the pizza on Friday, you know. And um, you know, how how do you, yeah, I don't want to say convinced, but how do you show a leader like that how to delegate well? You know, I've heard the 80-20 rule, right? If somebody can do it 80% the way you can, then get it off your off your uh plate. Uh, but how how did you get overdelegate delegation?

SPEAKER_01

Um, well, I would say I'm not really over delegation. I'm working on it. I'm working on it. So I'm a type A personality, um, and I tend to like to get things done super quick. Um, I also I typically am online by 6 a.m. in the morning, um, Pacific time. 6 to 8:30 is like very few people in our office. We've got a few people on the East Coast, but outside of that, we don't have a lot of people working. So between 6 and 8:30, I can just get through so many things that sometimes I don't delegate things and I just do them during that kind of pocket of time where I'm in base mode getting things done. Um, but I've gotten better at recognizing when I'm not the best person to do something, and therefore I should delegate. So, um, you know, for instance, um legal contracts. I'm required to sign all of our legal contracts. Now, not every legal contract needs to go to a lawyer for vetting. Some do, but not every single one. A simple NDA or or an MD M NDA, you know, they don't need to go to a lawyer every single time. But I'm not, I'm not an attention to detail person. Um, I'm more of a big picture visionary. So I always utilize both our CFO and our CTO who are incredible with looking for details. And I'll say, Can you, you know, I'll read it and go, looks good, and I'll send it to them and say, Can I get a second set of eyes? Or I'll look at it, I'll throw it into, you know, AI and then say, okay, AI sees these gaps, but do you see anything else? Um, and uh, you know, I've learned really quickly that they're better at it than I am. So the amount of time that I can spend looking through a you know a contract for the Ts and C's is not a useful use of my time. Uh, it's better to give it to someone that's gonna do it far faster than I am with better success. So I really try hard to recognize what am I good at? Where are my strengths? Don't delegate in those areas unless I'm trying to groom and and and help someone grow, um, like my my VP of operations, who I'm grooming into the COO. I'm gonna give him more grace and give him more opportunity of things that usually I would handle because I'm trying to stretch him and get him to think more like an operator. Um, but otherwise, you know, if I'm not good at it, I'm gonna delegate it. Or if I know somebody's gonna be able to do it faster, I'm gonna delegate it. And I try to be really selective now on what I keep. Um, but it's it's a work in progress. I'm not great at it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it can be very difficult. Um but we all we all we all need to do it at some point. I remember some of my stumbling blocks there too when I was uh when I started the business, was just delegating too, because it's just I can do it quicker and I can get it out of the way, but then yeah, you know, sometimes it's not good long term. What motivates you?

SPEAKER_01

So for me, I I'm motivated by other people's success. So I really like to work with people and then see their growth. That makes me inspired to like do a better job. Um, I like when I send out an ENPS at Nucleus and we get tons of results, uh, employee net promoter score. Um, so when I get feedback from our company that we're doing things really well, that's what motivates me to keep doing better. Um I I like to see success with others, um, whether it be in the industry, at Nucleus, at Lyra level. Um, if I can be a small piece of that, that's what gets me excited every day.

SPEAKER_00

And success of your clients, right? Through great support and for them to grow and goes on.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, we have, I mean, we have some clients that have been with us for over 20 years. Um, and you know, they might have started as a you know a four-person architecture firm and now they're a 200-person architecture firm. And it's really cool to see that growth and know that we've been a part of that. Or some of these, you know, architecture firms, they have landmarks around Vancouver, and we get to know that you know, whatever small piece we were of helping them build that that building or or you know, that landmark, because they required technology to do that, and we're their technology partners. So there's there's definitely uh that piece of it as well.

SPEAKER_00

So I hear, you know, you want you you want to see other success. To me, that says impact. You know, you want positive impact on uh your colleagues, employees, clients, etc. I'm sure vendors as well. So then how do you measure success given impact as a motivation?

SPEAKER_01

So I mean, I I measure impact from both our, you know, as I mentioned, our our employee net promoter score, our client net promoter score. Um, I also measure impact in our financials because I know the more financially um solid nucleus is, that means the more I can spread joy through compensation to my employees. Um, and that is obviously good. If I can, if I can give out, you know, extra salary increases at the end of the year because financially we perform very well, that's a good news situation. That's impact that that tangibly impacts my my employees in a positive way. So um those are the kind of things that that I look for is is to you know, that I actually measure um in addition to you know the opportunities that I'm given to work one-on-one with certain people. So, you know, we have a uh a project manager on our team, and um, you know, I I have been informally mentoring her for the last six months, um, and just you know, having a connection point with her where you know I can help her flesh out ideas and around her career growth. And you know, it's not coming from necessarily nucleus CEO, it's coming from Jen as an individual and helping her kind of navigate things. And that that to me is really motivating is is that if I if I'm just even the smallest piece of success to help her reach success, that's incredible.

SPEAKER_00

So, what would break your current success if you stopped doing it?

SPEAKER_01

Um, I would say if I stopped in like all of the stuff I do with with people, that would break the success. Um, that is my superpower, is that that connection piece with people? So if I stopped having time to connect with my team, connect with other teams, um, to to actually have real conversations with people, that would break the success for sure. And it would break my motivation. I would not, I would never be good with no direct reports or um you know, being a an untouchable CEO of a company, that would not inspire me whatsoever.

SPEAKER_00

You mentioned mentorship. What goes into being a good mentor?

SPEAKER_01

So I think what goes into being a good mentor is is availability, um, being present, um, asking the tough questions, providing the tough feedback, uh, and and being a sounding board when things go well or don't go well. So um I've been mentoring, you know, I've been mentoring a individual in in the channel for the last eight months or so, and um, you know, me and her have a regular cadence where we meet and and you know, over the over the weekend she texts me saying, Hey, do you have time for a call today? Um and even though it's a weekend, I'm gonna make time because that means that she needs me in that moment. And it ended up being that she had really good news and she just wanted to share some really good news. And that was really cool that she thought of on her Saturday, you know, she's she's got this cool news and that she wanted to include me in this success that she's having in her career. And um, you know, I it it's it's creating that space where people know I can text Jen on a Saturday and she's gonna make she's gonna make the time for me. Um, and sometimes, you know, that's not possible. It'd be, you know, if I'm at a family event or something, maybe I say I'm gonna call you in two hours. But the fact that I'm available and and approachable, I think is is part of what it means to be a good mentor, is that you're creating that that safe space for who you're mentoring. But sometimes that comes with hard conversations or direct feedback that is hard to hear. And I've had to have, you know, those conversations with some of the people I've meant, uh mentored to say, you know, the reason that you're hitting the same roadblocks is not other people's mistakes, it's your approach. Let's talk about your approach. Um and uh again, it goes back to the conversation I was having about clear as kind. Um, if you want to be a good mentor, you sometimes have to be clear and direct, even though the messaging is hard.

SPEAKER_00

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SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean, I think that I can give advice and I can give guidance. Um it's not necessarily a place where I can hold someone accountable. However, I can be accountable for my time. So if I say, here's the things I think you need to work on, and here's how I can help support you working on these, and then no actions are taken, there's only going to be so much of my time I'm given if if there's no actual outcomes that are happening or no positive momentum that's happening from those mentorship meetings. So, you know, if someone doesn't want to take my advice, that's okay. Um, I don't know everything. I certainly don't know everything. Um so it's it's great if someone says, you know, they're I'm not getting enough, you know, or I don't, I don't trust this advice or I don't think this is right for me. That's okay. Um, but that might mean that long term, if if we're always hitting the same roadblocks and there isn't any change happening, whether it be the change that I recommend or different changes that they find, you know, elsewhere, it might just mean that they're not ready to create change. And if that's the case, then I'm not sure my time is best spent with those people. So it's looking at, you know, is there ROI for them? And if there isn't, then I I'm not gonna continue to do it.

SPEAKER_00

Jennifer Roy, absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for your time today. Really, really uh, I know we've only talked a couple of times before this, but thanks again. Anyone watching or listening, how can they get in touch with you?

SPEAKER_01

LinkedIn's gonna be the best. Um, I'm pretty active on LinkedIn, so they can reach out. Uh, you know, certainly um I'm pretty prompt on email, so my email is is nice and easy. It's just jroy at your nucleus.ca.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you so much. I look forward to seeing you face to face, probably uh oh well, one of the events coming up soon. Thank you so much for your time.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you. Take care.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you for listening andor viewing Joey Pins Discipline Conversations. Please share this episode with one or two of your friends who you think may benefit from the episode. Our website, www.joeepins.com. There you find lots of resources, and you could join our mailing list. Please follow us on all our social media, Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. Podcast information, the video version of our podcast is on YouTube. Please subscribe. Audio is on all major podcasting platforms. Please follow them. And if you like it, please consider giving five star rating. Would really appreciate that. Thank you again for listening or watching Joey Pin's Disciplined Conversations.