Joey Pinz Discipline Conversations

#886 Bob Labbe: ⛳ Engineering Your Golf Game: The Science Behind Better Putting

• Joey Pinz • Episode 866

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⛳ What if improving your golf game wasn’t about feel—but about precision, math, and repeatable systems?

In this episode of Joey Pinz Conversations, Joey Pinz sits down with engineer, entrepreneur, and author Bob Labbe to explore a completely different way to think about golf—especially putting. With over 50 years of engineering experience, Bob breaks down how he applied problem-solving principles to one of the most frustrating parts of the game… and turned it into a system.

From building companies in air pollution control to inventing new products and writing Putting by the Numbers, Bob shares how structured thinking, consistency, and curiosity can transform performance—not just in golf, but in life.

This conversation goes beyond mechanics. It explores mindset, practice habits, and why most golfers (and professionals) may be focusing on the wrong things.

🔑 Top 3 Highlights:

✅ 📊 A simple “Individual Power Factor” system to improve putting

✅ 🧠 Why confidence comes from having a plan—not guessing

✅ ⚙️ How an engineer’s mindset turns problems into solutions

If you want to lower your score, think sharper, and approach improvement differently—this one delivers.

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Discipline. How does it play a role in your life? How does it drive your decisions? Do you have too much or too little? Every profession, hobby, or passion requires a level of discipline. I have used it in weight loss (+130 lbs.), family death, and found a +25 year business. Am I an expert? Absolutely not! Please join me, as I speak to interesting people and find out how discipline affects their career, life, goals, and decisions. Join me as I talk to interesting people in: #Health, #Fitness & #Wellness: #Business, #Technology & #Science: #Art & #Culture: Website: joeypinz.com All social media @TheJoeyPinz Do you wish to Sponsor? Get the prospectus here: www.joeypinz.com/sponsor

 

 

 

 

 

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SPEAKER_03

Bob Labitt. Great conversation with Bob. An engineer. An engineer at heart and uh loved math and science in school. This was in the late 60s when he graduated high school. So we went to Georgia Tech, where they had a co-op program where you work for a semester and then go to the university or the other. He said it was the toughest thing to get that degree in his entire life. Uh just the way they were so regimented and tough. He had a 79.9 in a particular subject, and he was not awarded the B. And uh there was lots of military there, so there was plenty of structure and uh just a great conversation. And he went into air pollution control after that. Uh I know nothing about that area. It seems like a daunting task. He was in that industry for 55 years. Also it was work for someone worked for a company, bought or created some other company, sold them, created another, and then he retired and he failed at retirement. So he came in and out and he he saw an issue where a coaster uh you know, where you arrest a drink on will stick to the drink and ruin his tie. So he came up with an invention there. And and then after my heart, um he he has this method of how of how to puff. And he has this whole way of uh what's called an IPF of if you're a golfer at all, you know, how to measure how you're gonna putt, but just a great conversation with Bob. Really enjoy the way his uh mind works, and uh let's get to talk so much one of my passions as well, which is golf. Bob, thank you, and thank you for watching and listening. Really appreciate it. Hi, I'm Joey Pins, and here's my 45-second introduction. After starting my business in the 90s, I started developing poor habits of eating in my diet because of working way too much. Before you know it, I found myself 340 pounds. The doctor told me if I don't lose the weight, I'm not gonna see my daughter graduate. Took the next seven months, lost 130 pounds. People think there's some secret. Ask me, how'd you lose that weight? Like there's some secret. There is no secret. How'd I lose the weight? Just one word. Discipline. I've had other successes in life, and I attribute them all to discipline. Now I'm not the king of discipline, but I believe that it can help all of us. Friends, colleagues convinced me to start a podcast. Podcast Mission, how do we better ourselves and society? I talked to interesting people in health, fitness, sport, wellness, business, technology, science, art, and culture. And I eventually asked them how discipline plays a role in their life. Podcast Vision, growth through learning from others. You I I heard you say that Georgia Tech was the hardest thing you ever had to go through.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03

Why?

SPEAKER_00

Well, back in the day, I went there between 63 and 67 and graduated in 68. And that those were the years uh when you know uh the great space race was on, and and there was a great demand for engineers, and Georgia Tech is a very difficult school.

SPEAKER_03

In this fast-paced MSP landscape, how do you stay ahead? Introducing MSP Influencer.com, your ultimate hub for MSP news, insights, and community connection powered by Forza Dash. More than 75,000 MSP subscribed to our MSP Influencer Falls weekly newsletter, staying informed and ahead of industry traffic. Tune in to a merging podcast for leading MSP voices, offering a central tips of powerful insights and store our multiple offer live craft MSP leaders, delivering first perspective, deliver exports with industry leading force dash MSP influencer, recognizing Facebook in fact MSP. Join thousands of MSP professionals to trust MSP Influencer.com to grow their business and expand their network. MSP Influencer.com, where today's MSP leaders connect, collaborate, and counter, all powered by the Force Dodge platform, helping MSP vendors work effectively with MSPs and helping MSPs grow. Bob, can you bring the microphone a little closer? Just a little bit closer?

SPEAKER_00

Sure, sure. How about that right there? Is that better?

SPEAKER_03

I think it's a little better, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

A little better, okay. Yeah, Georgia Tech is a difficult school. The the the reason the curriculum is is pretty difficult, but the professors are very, very strict. Okay. And uh for example, if I had a professor one time, uh had a 79.9 average, okay, and I went to his office before final posting of grades and said, I said, Professor, would you give consideration? I know I'm one tenth of a per uh one-tenth of a point away from getting a B. Uh could you round it up to a B for me? And he said, No, sir, you got 79.9, you get a C. And that was kind of the uh example of the mentality at Georgia Tech during those years. Now I think it's softened up a little bit, but I still think the curriculum in the engineering school, now they've added a lot of schools that have made it more of a university than an institution. It used to be the Georgia Institute, so now it was truly an institute. And I found the five years, I study six hours a day, six days a week, wow, uh, as the norm, okay. And uh I got I got through with a uh a B minus average after four and a half years of effort. So as far as difficulty and and time preparation and and studying, I mean it was uh it's most everything else in life has been uh challenging, but never quite that difficult.

SPEAKER_03

And you think it was more difficult then than it is now?

SPEAKER_00

Uh a touch. I I mean they took away the rat caps, which was uh a freshman coming in, you wore a rat cap to uh distinguish yourself from upperclassmen, and there was a you had to wear a certain hat if you were a freshman? Yes, you you wore a little beanie rat cap with a bib on it, and you you recorded all the football scores on it, okay. And you had to wear it around campus all the time to distinguish yourself from the upperclassmen, okay. And that was part of the deal. And and uh, you know, it was it was a pretty disciplined, regimented school. Uh a lot of military people went there during World War II and the Korean conflict, and uh it because of that, the military presence there, I was an ROTC there, and there was a there was a strictness in the structure at the school. I still I still think it's still there, but it's somewhat relaxed because of the the new world we're living in.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it's interesting how the the presence of the military kind of creates that structure and almost rigidity.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, indeed, indeed. A lot of Air Force, a lot of Navy, a lot of uh Marine people came there to get their master's degrees, and uh yeah, it it really was a structured military environment, you might say.

SPEAKER_03

And your interest, excuse me, your interest in engineering before going there, was there one?

SPEAKER_00

Well, you know, when you come out of high school as an 18-year-old kid, I was very good in science and math, okay? And and my mother, uh, we didn't have any money, and my mother ran down the fact that Georgia Tech had a cooperative program where you could go to school one quarter and work one quarter.

SPEAKER_01

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00

And so that's how I got through tech was on the cooperative program because I would go to school for a quarter and then they would send me off to like I went and worked for Georgia Power and Porta Power and Light during the co-op uh quarters, and that would make me enough money to pay for my tuition and matriculation fee for the next quarter. And I worked my way to school, and and that was that was the way I got through because uh there was no there was no money to be spent on college.

SPEAKER_03

And you're interested, so you're good in the math and science, but engineering, you just kind of learn to love it in the university.

SPEAKER_00

That's right. I mean, uh, because you know when you're good at something, it comes kind of natural. And if it comes natural, it's fun. And so that's engineering became natural to me and fun to me. And I carried it through 55 years of being in the air pollution control business, always solving problems, define the problem, look at the possible alternatives, build a prototype, get the right solution, and take it to market.

SPEAKER_03

What should we I mean, talk to me about the climate of the of the even the industry of air pollution control in the late 60s, early 70s as it is now. Is there still the same issue with the tech the technology has changed, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00

Well, it's it's it's always constantly improving, but you know, a lot of people, first of all, let me just say this 80% of the pollution in the world is created by uh transportation. Wow, trucks, buses, cars, airplanes, it's all those uh greenhouse gases. 20% of the pollution in the world is caused by power plants and industrial operations. I I lived in the world of the industrial world, but what makes the industrial world so predominant in the eyes of the average citizen is they see these big smokestacks billowing out all these, whether it's steam or it's it's uh pollution, it it is it's so uh in your face that the public believes that pollution in the in the industrial industrial world is where it's happening. Uh and it is, and it is concentrated because you back if you I'm from Akron, Ohio originally, and we were in the rubber industry, and right next door to us was Pittsburgh in the steel industry. I spent most most of my career working between Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Illinois, and all the uh big industrial states where steel was produced and cement and etc, etc. So yeah, I I uh I think that the Clean Air Act of 1970 is what really was the uh was the motivating factor for all industrial and utility plants to take the next step in in providing abatement to pollution, knowing that previous to the government intervention in 1970 with the Clean Air Act, you know, companies, cement plants and power plants, they were putting electrostatic precipitators and bag houses in their plants long before the government uh came along with the 1970 Act. But this required this act of 1970 required all industrial companies to reduce their pollution, which I think was a very good thing for this country because we are we are the cleanest country in the world.

SPEAKER_03

1970, that was Nixon administration, I would think.

SPEAKER_00

That is correct, Nixon administration.

SPEAKER_03

And so then they so they began a process, the act would actually test some of these firms and then find if they were beyond certain measurements and metrics.

SPEAKER_00

That's correct. As a matter of fact, my first company uh after I left American Air Filter, which I worked for for five years in Louisville, and they gave me the training and know-how to to to function successfully in the air pollution control industry, but I started my own company in '72. And the first company I started because of lack of funds was a testing company. And I would, I would, I would, my partner and I would climb up smokestacks, and we we would test for particulate and sox, all these different gases and stuff, and then we would write reports and send them to the customer, and who in turn would send them to the flution control uh agencies for compliance. And we did that's how we started out, and then we got into the fabrication business, and we started building bag houses, and then we started building systems, and we grew the business very quickly and uh spent 55 years doing that. It was a lot of fun. Matter of fact, uh Joe, I I tell people uh I had so much fun in my career, I didn't ever feel like that really worked.

SPEAKER_01

Good for you.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

That's that's the labor of love. It was a labor of love. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So how does one begin? I'm not an engineer at all, Bob. How does one start to clean the air? My goodness, what an undertaking.

SPEAKER_00

Well, you know, of course, a lot of the technologies were already pre-established even before the government got involved mandating compliance with certain standards. So, yeah, and and you get you get involved at the big the big three companies in air pollution control in 1970 were American Air Filter, Wheel Obrator Fry, and Research Cattrell. Research Cattrell was electrostatic precipitator company. Wheel Obrator and American Air Filter did both bag houses and electrostatics and mechanical factors, etc. So guys like us that came out of engineering schools, uh, they knew we were we were capable of comprehending the technology which they taught us. And the reason I went to work for American Air Filter in in the first place was they were the lowest job offer I got in 1968. I got 23 job offers in 1968. It wasn't because I was unusually bright, it was the fact there was such a demand for engineers back then. And so when I when they told me, hey, I said, can I I'm very interested in the air pollution control field. I wrote I wrote a little kind of a semi-thesis on it, was I was at tech, and I said, Can I get into the air pollution control division of American Air Force? And they said, Yes, sir, and they have a six-month program, and they taught you about air pollution control, heating, ventilating, air conditioning, steam traps, and valves. They told you how they took you across the street to their fabricating plant, they showed you how to fabricate steel, they took you to the legal department, they took you to the testing department. You learned all these facets of their business. For six months, I was in a 40-hour week training program that taught me the practicalities of the engineering field I wanted to participate in. And whereas Georgia Tech is somewhat theoretical, this gave me the practical tools to proceed in life with some real, real hands-on knowledge.

SPEAKER_03

And like you said, then when you love what you do, the time just goes by quickly, quickly, 55 years. So you built that company up, then you ended up selling it, and then you start you you just can't sit around, Bob. I got a feeling you're not good at retiring.

SPEAKER_00

I'm not. I've retired three times.

SPEAKER_03

So your first endeavor was that was an interesting one to make uh, I believe it was your first, was kind of coasters.

SPEAKER_00

Well, no, my my first was an air pollution control company back. Yeah, sure. I started it in 1972, sold the first one in 78, started the second company in 81, sold it in 97, retired for six years, started the last company in 2003, and retired it from it in December 31st of 2023. So I did 20 years in that one. So it was a lot of fun, and and and uh uh then just at the end of retiring in 2023 is when I got I was at my daughter's house, uh we were getting ready to go out to dinner. We were all dressed in our dressed up in our nice clothes, and and I was having a cocktail, and uh she gave me a coaster, and it was a leather type coaster like this one here. And I I was uh I asked her to make me a second one, and so she did, and she put it back on the coaster. And then I went to, we were just talking, I took a sip of it, and the the coaster stuck to the bottom of my glass, fell on my my favorite silk tie. Then it fell on my my my jacket, on my pants, on the cocktail table, and on our carpet, and it left a a stain on my tie. I I couldn't get out from the the dry cleaner. So and I said to my daughter time, I said, you know, I've been doing this air pollution control stuff for 55 years, and this has always been a pet peeve of mine, because I've I've had these coasters fall on me before, and I'm gonna solve that problem. And so thereabout, I we when we got home from our house, I I started making hand drawings of it, and then I sent it over to my to my chief engineer who's a friend of mine, and said, Tony, put this on AutoCAD for me. And so we did, that was October 23, and then by January of 24, um, we had it to the patent office, and the attorney searched the patent for me, make sure it was I was not impinging on anybody else's patent, and so it was that uh nobody had anything like this, and so by uh March of that year we had patent pending, and just this year we got the final 20-year utility patent on it, and that's in the United States, and we have international patent pending everywhere in the world.

SPEAKER_03

So, how do you make a coaster, Bob, that doesn't stick to the glass?

SPEAKER_00

Well, it's engineered, Joe. It's engineered, and the way I the way I came up, I said, you know, the key is you got to have a coaster that does its job, and and the and the purpose of the coaster is obviously to absorb or contain the condensate. So, what this coaster does, there's a grid on top here, and between each grid, vertical and horizontal, there's a one millimeter semicircle that's cut into each grid number. And those are called capillaries. Okay, so when I put my drink on that and the condensate is running down the drink, it goes and hits one of these uh horizontal vertical bars, and then it the condensate rolls over into the capillary, and the capillary causes it to flow down into the absorption pan. Okay, and then you you can contain up to two ounces of condensate in into this pan, then you just take it and dump it in your sink, throw it in a dishwasher. These are dishwasher safe, they're good for both hot and cold drinks, and they will not stick to your drink. So, what I do, I I capture, convey, collect, and contain condensate so it doesn't get on your clothes, cocktail table or your carpet. Solve the problem.

SPEAKER_03

But is you is your mind continually just trying to solve problems in an engineering fashion?

SPEAKER_00

Well, yeah, I I was I was talking to my wife. My wife doesn't want me doing any more of this crazy stuff, like like the book or the coaster. But I got to thinking, you know, in the last five years as we traveled around the country, I've had two windshields broken uh because of stones being thrown up from the 18 wheelers. So I uh I had an idea of how to solve that problem. Okay, yeah. So I called my engineer and buddy up in Atlanta and said, hey, you're only 65 years old. You're still young. So why don't you here here's the solution to that problem, and why don't you work on it and and and let me see let me see your drawing. I hadn't heard back from him yet, but I just did this in the last couple weeks. I I have a solution to the problem, but I don't want to have to go through it would be a great, it would be a great thing for the insurance companies, it would be a great thing for the uh owners of all the 18 wheelers, and it would solve the problem of uh getting your windshow broke when you're riding down the road. Because we my wife and I have traveled a lot of miles on the highways on our vacations, and and it's a constant problem.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I just had mine done recently. Yeah, it it it's a very it's interesting. And so even so after your degree, even when you had all these businesses, I mean, still if you see a problem, you think, how can I solve that? It's just the way your mind works.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. Exactly. I had a I had an idea of how to do fencing, and I still got the file, uh, but they come out with a better solution with the aluminum fencing, uh, which is electrostatically painted, it's corrosion resistance and all that. So it was a better mine was a steel, mine was a steel um uh fence, so theirs is actually a better design. But I've always I've had all kinds of ideas that I keep in my files, and and um I just when I see a problem, and I told I have uh nine grandchildren and six great grandchildren.

SPEAKER_01

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

And I and I say to them, Hey, talk to your mom, ask what her problems are around the household, solve help solve her problems. Okay. Think about just think about solving problems. And you know, if you do that, you're gonna and you come up with a solution. That's that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_03

What if discipline wasn't about punishment, but about unlocking your best self? I spent two and a half years writing discipline for greatness because discipline will change my life. And I know it can change yours too. This isn't a theory. Inside you'll find real practical steps you can use immediately to focus better, build stronger habits, reduce stress, accomplish your goals, and bring more balance to your life. Whether you're trying to get healthier, improve your career, or simply feel more control. This book gives you the framework. Start today. Grab your copy of Open for Greatness at joeypins.com slash book. Thank you for the question. Yeah, because if you're solving a problem, you're working at the customer first. Sometimes some of these engineers are so smart, they just kind of come up with a solution that there's really not a problem to. But if you kind of start at the problem, okay, well, this actually affects us people. So these people would be interesting in pursuing that. That's how you're helping. It's a very it's a different angle to approach, but it's really the best way, I would think.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_03

Because I hear it sometimes, you know, we've got this great got this great, you know, solution, and like yeah, but I I don't have that problem, and I don't know many people that do. You know, it yeah. What's your favorite club in the bag? Your golf club in the bag. The cutter. Yeah, I know it is. Yeah. Why is golf the fairest professional sport?

SPEAKER_00

Well, it's because you have to you have to be honorable, yeah, and you have to tell on yourself if you break the rules.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And if you're a golfer, it comes with the it comes with the turf. You you will tell on yourself because golf is an honorable game.

SPEAKER_03

It sure is.

SPEAKER_00

And you have to be an honorable person to play the game by the rules.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and plus you know, you you gotta self-police, which not a lot of sports, I don't know any other does that. Secondly, is you only get paid if you play well.

SPEAKER_01

That's right.

SPEAKER_03

You know, you make the cut after the weekend, you're you're guaranteed some money, but you've got to play well to get there. All there's all these guaranteed contracts in all these sports. There's no guaranteed contracts in golf. There's some sponsor, sure, sponsor you know, uh, money for a lot of the golfers, but as far as playing, you've got to play well to make the money.

SPEAKER_00

That's very true, very true. And you and when you think about it, there's approximately 150 uh professional golfers on the PGA tour. And of course, the the Live Tour is, although it's small, they they paid an enormous amount of money for those people playing in that tour. But yes, you're right. In order to make a good living and to get wealthy, like many of the top golfers have done, you have to play very well. And Scotty Sheffer is a good example of it. I mean, he's he's just number one in the world, yeah, consistent, you know, come came in second in the masters, just came in second in the RBC Heritage Classic. I mean, he he's he's constantly there, and uh uh there are a few people when you think about 150 PGA professional tour golfers in the entire world, okay, and you know we're approaching 8 billion people in the world, and there's 150 of them that can play golf at that level. That's that's a pretty small eye of the needle.

SPEAKER_03

Absolutely. Another thing he proves that you don't have to have the standard typical prototypical swing. He's got quite a unique one where he slides that black foot and opens the front, but he makes it an incredible impact. And then you have somebody like Rory who has more of the traditional, let's say, swing, a beautiful swing, uh, a swing in which Tiger tells his own son, don't copy my style, copy Rory's. You know, but my point is that everybody kind of peels the onion differently, but still the results that matter, and and that's what's important.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. That's exactly.

unknown

Good.

SPEAKER_00

That that's what I say about putting. I'm not I'm not gonna, I'm not going, I'm not a PGA instructor. I I am an amateur golfer, and uh I got my handicap. I'm got I'm a seven at age 82. Wow. And it's it's largely because of my putting.

SPEAKER_03

I'm a seven as well, Bob. Uh and you know, um the putting, I I you know, I heard you say, so there's 18 holes, you make two putts a hole, that's 36 putts. That's way too many, but quite that could be a good half, you know, of your of your stroke. So when I'm when I'm at the course, boy, especially the young people, all I see them with the driver in their hand, which they probably use on 13 holes, or you use it 13 times, 12 times, 11 times, whereas the putter, the chipping is everything.

SPEAKER_00

That's right, that's right. And and here, as you know, Joe, these guys that are on any of the professional tours, they're playing golf six days a week. Yeah, you know, and us guys that are just amateur golfers, and particularly as you get older, you don't play as I used to play three three 18 whole rounds a week and practice on the other three days just to make sure I kept getting better. But the you know, and that was because I was in retirement and could do that. But most guys play once a week, maybe twice a week to the maximum. And you don't have you don't have the skill set or the or the continued practice that these professionals get. So therefore, you know, using a a lob wedge, pitching wedge, or a sand wedge around the green, you can scroll that thing, you can hit it fat. I mean, you you can mess up with it. But I can say this if I'm if I'm within 15 yards of the green and there's no obstructions, I know I can use my Texas wedge better than I can use any other club in my bag because of my quantitative method of putting.

SPEAKER_03

So Texas wedge, of course, is when you putt when you're not on the green to get closer to the uh, you know, to get closest to the hole. You know, uh I I play with it, you know, I end up playing a lot, and I sometimes I play with higher handicaps, and they're you know, they're saying, you know, what am I doing wrong? And I say, well, you know, there's great, I have too much respect for these for the trainers. You know, I still take lessons every year. You know, just Tiger Woods had a coach, you know. You have to keep taking you can't correct when you're on the court. I g if you're if you're insisting, I'd say pick the smallest target possible and try to hit it. But I mean, you know, I the people that kind of constantly kind of self-correct and have all these swing thoughts, and um it's it's it's uh it's a frustrating game, it's a wonderful game, but um, you know, I I I love it. Bob, what's the IPF?

SPEAKER_00

That's called that's what I've uh coined as your individual power factor. Okay, and everybody has their own unique individual power factor because it's simply the biomechanical action of rocking your shoulders when you put. Okay, and like for instance, on my carpet down here where I practice during the winter, um my IPF down here is 11 feet of travel for every one inch of retraction with my putter from the ball. And it's linear, so I can use a three-inch retraction and putt 33 feet down here in my basement. Okay, my wife's IPF, for example, on this same carpet is eight feet per inch, and she puts 24 feet per every three when she retracts her putting three inches. So, because of its accuracy, its reproducibility, the fact that it's linear, the system really works because I've I've tested this system over the last 25 years all over the world. That from from the old course to pebble beach, they aren't didn't let me on the masters, though. I'm still trying to get there.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, let me know when you get on.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I don't think I don't think I was wrong enough.

SPEAKER_03

So let's talk, let's let's kind of dissect a little bit. You mentioned putting is with the shoulders. So a lot of times we see the high handicappers using their wrists and breaking the wrist. And we know that we want to lock those wrists and we want to you know keep it all, use it bigger and keep it all in the shoulders. I heard one instructor say, kind of like the trunk of an elephant, you know, slap your hand down and like or uh the a big grandfather clock and it's the you know the the rocker at the bottom. Look at it that way where you're you're using your shoulders to actually make the connection. So you're saying in the IPF that if you bring the putter back one inch from the ball and then strike it, it goes a certain amount of feet every time, depending on some factors.

SPEAKER_00

Correct, correct. And in the game of putting is a friction force event. Okay, you have if you're putting on bent grass grains, there's no grain, so you can putt in either direction, the ball will go the same distance for the same retraction. Then you've got the fringe, you got the fairway, and you've got the first cut of rough. And each one of those surfaces have a different friction factor. And way I way I approach the game with my quantitative method putting, I go I go to the to the course about 30 minutes before I I tee off, and I will go practice my putting first. I then might go over to the range for five minutes and hit a driver in a 7 iron or something like that just to loosen up. But I spend most of my time on the practice putting green before I go out, and I determine the speed of the green, the speed of the fringe, the speed of the fairway, and the speed of the first cut or off, and I write that on my scorecard. And then when I go out on the on the course, if I get in a situation where I'm right in the first cut or rough right off the green, I know how to quickly arithmetically figure it out and know how far to retract that cut or put that ball within three to five feet of that hole. And sometimes I put it in.

SPEAKER_03

Wow. Now, if you see the pros, there's some other factors there. What how about the ball? You know, we know that there's uh softballs like the Pro V1, there's harder ones, there's like the noodle and things like that. That can come into play the stemp of the actual green, but you I guess you determine that when you do your practicing in the in the in the beginning of the round or before the round. Are you always using your the same ball?

SPEAKER_00

No, well, I usually have a sleeve of balls that I take, three balls out, just like when you're doing the stint meter. Yeah, they they use three balls and they put it on the stint meter and they put it in the notch and they lift it up, and three balls roll out. And if they're within two feet of each other, they take the average it goes to, and that's your speed of green for the day. Same concept, but that's a qualitative method of putting. But that's what got in my head when I started figuring out hey, can I create a quantitative method of putting that works? And because my putting was so bad, Joe, I was putting I took up the game in 1996 and I got really pretty good with the 13 clubs, but that that 14th club, the putter, was killing me. I was butt I was putting between 40 and 44 putts around. I was uh I had I had two or three three or four putts during a round of golf, you know. And I I never I never had a one putt, unless I got within a couple feet of the hole. So with that being said, I I knew I had a bunch of friends that were good golfers, and I called them up and said, hey, what do I do? Well, nobody had an answer except that you just got to practice, practice, practice, and I agree with that. But that with all that being with all that being said, my methodology of creating this quantitative method started with Ed Edward Stimson and his STMeter developed in Oakmont in Oakmont in 1935 after the US Open. Okay. However, the USGA didn't adopt it until 1941 years later. And that that's correct, yeah. So anyway, that's how I got the idea. I said that's a relative thing. If I could take that relativity and make it quantitative and reproducible, then I'd have something. Well, it took me a long time. Being an engineer, you gotta be sure that what you put in print is correct. You know, and I took a long time doing it. My wife was very helpful because she let me re redo my putts on lots of green ones. We were playing together to see if it was reproducible. And when I saw that it was reproducible, I I uh shot an 86 at the old course in Scotland, shot an 88 at Pebble Beach, and it was largely due to my putting. Okay, and and so consequently, I I played a lot of great courses around the world, and uh I found that's what's neat about my method. You can go to any course. Your home course, you know what the greens are going to be like most of the time. Sure, you know, but if you can go to any course in the world using this method, and you can play that course like the home course, get the hour in advance, and you practice uh the greens and the the fringe, the fairway, and the first cutter up, you'll know exactly how to put that thing. And that, as you say, as much as 50% of the game can rely on your putty.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, you mentioned uh the stemp. I didn't know the gentleman's name was Edward Stimson, but you know, generally when we go to a new course, we say, hey, you know, what's the stemp reading today? And if we, you know, if it's above 10, above 11, I say, okay, we gotta learn how to give that ball a nice kiss. You know, we gotta, you know, because it's gonna roll right off, it's gonna be fast. The greens are gonna be faster. So yeah, he has this method where there's three balls and there's a device, and um it it's it's really, really, you know, some of the better greens are gonna be more, and then um uh some of the, you know, when it's slower, like when they play the right, like in Europe, for example, they play the rider cup, they purposely kind of slow them down a little bit because it's kind of the the the American players are so used to it being fast. But you mentioned um you mentioned your wife, and I know she's uh got more hole in ones than you, and I think she's aiming for more. But when you when you have that uh you say one inch back or two inches back, and it determines how about elevation? How about if there's an increase in the elevation or a decrease, or you know, there's some of those factors as well.

SPEAKER_00

Well, that's correct. And and that's that is a a little bit of a a little bit of a quantitative guess, to be honest. See, I have in my book for various levels of five degree, ten degree, up to 45 degree slope.

SPEAKER_01

I see.

SPEAKER_00

I I add, for instance, if I have a five degree slope for my IPF, I add one inch of retraction for that putt.

SPEAKER_01

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, if a five, and if I've got a five degree downward slope, I remove one inch from my putt to account for the downward slope. So there's a quantitative method for the upward and downward and the undulations. If I have an undulation where the slope going up and the slope going down are even, then that's a zero correction. Okay. So I do account for it, but it's not exact. But I'll tell you one thing, it's a whole lot better than having to guess at it.

SPEAKER_03

That's right.

SPEAKER_00

That's right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. If you uh if you fail the plan, you plan to fail, right? So I remember once hearing a tip about um, you know, you mentioned the Texas wet wedge or you're putting, you know, off the green, kind of in the rough a little bit. You get the distance of the pin, let's say it's six feet from the rough, and you kind of double it, you know, pretend the pin's that much further so you can add that much pressure to the ball to get it through. You know, all there's all these little sayings around uh, you know, the course and uh who knows what's true and what's not. How do you stop the D cell, Bob?

SPEAKER_00

How do you stop the D cell?

SPEAKER_03

So when you're coming back for that one or two inches, how do you stop from decelerating your club or you know increasing the speed? Because you're you've got to be very consistent, right?

SPEAKER_00

That's that's true. And what you what you that's what's so key about rocking the shoulders, and you've got there's two keys to using the quantitative method is be sure you're rocking the shoulders, be sure when you get back, like for instance, if I have a three-inch retraction, I come back maybe three or four inches, waggle my putter, okay, waggle it, and but I don't I make sure that when I get ready to proceed forward, I get it to three inches, and I make sure that I'm rocking shoulders, I hit through the ball and don't allow myself to decelerate. And that's one of the keys when you practice this, you have to be sure you're rocking your shoulders and driving through the ball with your putter. Do not decelerate because that messes everything up.

SPEAKER_03

It sure does. We know that in chipping as well. We see that far too often in chipping and in the short game, and then as far as you know, side swiping the putt, you know, right to left or left to right, going, you know, or hitting it straight on, is that a factor as well? Because some people come inside the out, some people come straight back.

SPEAKER_00

Well, my method is strictly come straight back and hit straight through. I see. My my wife actually cuts her putts. Yes. Okay. And and yet she even with her cutting methodology, which she's been used her whole life, and she's been playing, she's been, believe it or not, she she's been playing golf for 55 years.

SPEAKER_01

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

And and um she's um she cuts her putts, but it's it's uniform, it's consistent, and she can still use their the IPF to do it because she comes back and she cuts her putts, and I I always look at her putter when I'm watching from the other side and say, I can't believe her ball goes in that direction. But it does, it does, it does, and she as you say, she's had two hole-on-ones, and I've had 14 balls within 13 inches, but never a whole-in-one.

SPEAKER_02

You've counted, you've counted how many.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, that is the wonderful thing about golf, how you can have such different swings and different ways of doing it. But everybody gets the the the ball in the hole, you know, and um there's been some really odd swings on the PGA tour, and uh, you know, but it's it's it's part of the the the beauty of the game. How about reading greens, Bob? Any tips on that? We saw this weekend, you saw Fitzgerald. He actually lies down, you know, goes right down there uh to see the butts.

SPEAKER_00

Well, you know, uh I'm still an amateur and I'm not I'm not betting big bucks on my game. So uh I'd say I keep it I keep it pretty simple, Joe, but I do what I think if we're playing like my wife and I have play in uh in uh couples tournaments in June into October every year. So when I go and play in these tournaments, uh I I look at the ball from uh behind the ball, and then I walk on the other side of the hole and look at from the ball, and then I look from side from the side direction to see that elevation change. And I I personally have found that the plumb bobbing method works for me as far as determining the way that the the ball's gonna flow. And I and I also keep in my head the ball travels like if I was took a bucket of water and drained it on the course and watched the water flow. So my idea is plumb bob, water flow, see the ball from both directions and look at the ball from the side, and then then establish what's your retraction distance, and then make sure you rock your shoulders and hit through the ball. And I I will say this 95 plus percent of the time when I do that, my ball was within three to five feet of the cup, and 99% of the time I make my putt for two pipes.

SPEAKER_03

You mentioned plun bob using two fingers or using a shaft?

SPEAKER_00

I'm using the shaft.

SPEAKER_03

So explain what that means to people.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I mean, my putter is uh my putter is a pipe putter, and it's pretty heavy because of the pipe on the end of it. And so I hold my putter by the handle, and then I I I I focus on it by closing my You center the ball. On the center of the ball, that's correct. And then I with my governing eye, I close the other eye, watch my governing eye, and then I see where the cuff is regardless to the re regarding the center of my ball. And of course, if the cuff is left of the center of my ball, then I know the the cut's gonna break break from right to left. If the cuff is on the right side of that shaft, then I know the ball is gonna break from left to right. And then I that's and then I think about how would water flow If I dumped it right where my ball is. And then using that water flow, having looked at both sides of the cup, look at the side, I know in my mind exactly where I'm going to hit that ball.

SPEAKER_03

Wow. And before you get up to the ball, before you put the ball, you already know what how how you're going to hit it. When you stand over it, your mind's already made, correct?

SPEAKER_00

Exactly.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

See, that's what's cool about my method. When I come to the green or near the green, if my ball's near the green, I have a plan of action. And when you have a plan of action, you have confidence. And when you have confidence, that equates to accuracy. And many times when you got that confidence, plan of action, and accuracy, you get a good score.

SPEAKER_03

What's worse, Bob? A bad read or a bad putt?

SPEAKER_00

I don't like either one of them. I don't either.

SPEAKER_02

I don't either.

SPEAKER_03

I don't either. If it's your home course, I get upset if it's a bad read. I should, you know, because in my course, don't don't, what do they say? Don't learn, memorize, or something like that, right? I I should know my greens pretty darn well at this point. Uh, but of course, you know, a bad putt is uh there's no no excuse for that.

SPEAKER_00

Well, you know, we're human beings, and sometimes even with the greatest plan, you might strike that ball uh unlike you wanting to.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, sometimes we get so caught up in the cut and how it's gonna break. You hear this and say, you forgot to hit it, right? Meaning you didn't you didn't even get it there, you know, because you're so you so are concerned on how it's gonna break. Bob, is there something that you believed in firmly? Let's say like 10 years ago, solidly believed in that you no longer believe now.

SPEAKER_00

Well, yes. I believed 10 years ago that it wasn't the technology of the clubs, it was strictly the the club uh the the player. The player not not the not the not the club technology. And my wife said to me back in uh 2000, Christmas of 2023, you've had your penzings and your cowways for 20 years.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my.

SPEAKER_00

Why don't you buy some new clubs? They're gonna be help your game.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

I was I was losing distance because I was getting older. I said, honey, I said, nah, it's not it's not the clubs, it's a club E, you know. He said, no, no, no. The the technology out there is great, you need to try it. So Ozzy Smith is was a St. Louis Cardinals great guy, and he he he lived, he was a member out of St. Albans when we were out there. And so I I heard him advertising uh golf discounts and new clubs, and he got his clubs there, and so I went out there to to get fitted, and this guy, Ken, he's a great, great guy. He fitted my clubs, and uh I bought a whole complete set uh metals and irons and I kept my own putter because I love my I love my Nixcent uh pipe putter and uh I've had it for years. So anyway, I was hitting my for example, I was hitting my 7 iron with my ping zangs, about a hundred, I had it dropped down to 125 to 130 yards, and then I got the I got my new cowoways with the new technology. Now I'm hitting my seven iron 1450. I'm getting 20 years, 20 yards additional out of every club in my bag now.

SPEAKER_03

And the sweet spot is larger.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, right, very forgiving, very forgiving. Very forgiving. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, the technology has come a long way.

SPEAKER_00

So I I really have had a big change, and I I've shot a finally after all these years. I on July 13th of last year, I I shot a par round.

SPEAKER_03

Good for you, shot even.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

You know, we think as an engineer, Bob, you would kind of respect it.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I always thought I always always thought it was the player and not not the clubs.

SPEAKER_03

There's a lot of truth in that. There's a lot of truth in that. You see guys constantly buying new drivers and you know, but yeah, 10 to 15 year old clubs, that's uh yeah, that's that's a that's a tough one, too. Yeah, I can't.

SPEAKER_00

I love my thing zings. I it's just yeah, just uh I did I had a hard time parting with them.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. Is there a question, Bob, you wish more people asked you?

SPEAKER_00

Well, uh I've never thought much about that, Joe, but uh yeah, I think that um I think that as you know because I wrote this book about putting, yeah, I strongly believe that putting is something that everybody needs to practice more. I don't care what your skill set is, if you practice putting more, and like I say, as you said earlier in the in our discussion, putting can be as much as 50% of the game, but if it is, you're you're not having a really good game. Okay. But if it is 50% of the game, do you know anybody that practice putting 50% of the time? No way, no way. That's right, that's right. So I my comment to every new golfer, uh, even uh an uh experienced golfer is if you're having trouble with your score, just practice your putting more, more, more, more. And in the game, as you know, the secret to golf is practice, practice, practice.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, Bob, I'm trying to try to figure you're an engineer. You're an engineer at heart, you you you're educated in it, your business is surrounded by it, you're solving problems with engineers. The whole the whole art versus science question. Do you get a point when you're making a decision? Do you ever use your gut? You know, there's there's different kinds of golfers out there. There's the you know, the ones that just kind of bring everything together, bring the stats, the weather, the wind, the conditions, the position, pin position, etc., and then choose a club. But do you ever ask your gut as like a last resource or a beginning resource?

SPEAKER_00

I do, Joe, and and and I'll tell you when I do that, is it if it's late in the day and I'm on the 16th, 17th, or 18th hole, and I'm running out of gas, yeah. Okay, and you'll club up. And well, if I for my putting, if I'm if I'm 15 feet off the green, instead of making stepping that putt off or shooting it with my range finder, I have had enough experience with the methodology that I use. I in my gut, I say, I know how far that thing is. I see, and I don't go through the arithmetic to quantify the putt. I just I just hit it knowing if you do things enough, enough repetitions, you become good at it, and that's what I do because when I get really tired, I get lazy.

SPEAKER_03

Of course, of course, fatigue sets in. That's uh the other thing about golf, people don't realize. And does that translate to just regular life, Bob, when you're making decisions on on other things? Is it do you do you you trust your gut often?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I do. I mean, I you know, I'm getting I've got a pretty bad back, and the the doc wants to do a six-hour operation on my back, and I I'm not uh I'm not I'm taking I'm taking shots in my back right now. I'm gonna continue down that road until they don't work anymore. But uh yeah, I I you know at my age you don't want to do a six-hour operation. That's that's that's high risk.

SPEAKER_03

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SPEAKER_01

Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_03

So, Bob, I started my business in the 90s. I'm a little bit younger than you, and um I was working way too hard. 1460 nowadays, you're no stranger to this. And putting my I was in my 20s, I thought I was invincible, right? So I'm putting my health and my you know exercise in the backseat. Next thing I know, I'm in front of the doctor, she tells me I'm at 340 pounds. So I gained all this terrible amount of weight. I knew I was getting big, uh, you know, drinking too much soda and you know, late night snacks, and you know, it's just terrible. Um but she says to me, if you don't lose this weight, you're not gonna see your daughter graduate. So that scared the life out of me. So, you know, I'm driving home, punching the steering wheel. You know, I I can abuse myself all I want, but I've got this family now, right? I've got to stick around for them. Next six, seven months, lost about 120 pounds, and I kept it off. You know, these are lifelong decisions, right? You can't do this temporarily. You can't look at it as a finishing line. You've got to keep going with this. So when I tell people this, they say, you know, what's your secret? What you do? And I always say it's just discipline, right? Focus, motivation, routine, all of what I think is under discipline. How does discipline play a role in your life, Bob Labby?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I've always been very structured and very disciplined, you know. Um, you know, and I think you learned that from your mom and pop. My my dad was a a fireman and he had a kind of a military mindset about him. My mother was very uh very much into education and and uh wanting to uh wanting to get uh always strive to do better and better. And between those two uh parents, I had I had the great I had great parents, okay. I wish everybody could have as great a parent as I had, because they they kept pushing me in the right direction. And uh my dad was a great athlete, and yet my mother uh didn't want to get into meet any of our skids to get into athletics because the results back in the 40s and 50s didn't provide you the kind of financial results they have today. So we got were pushed into education, and and so that creates, you know, engineering is a very structured mindset. Yeah, and you stay you you kind of stay between the lines, so to speak, uh in engineering, and that kind of translates to your personal life too. You very you stay very structured, and that's the only thing I can say is that parents, uh education, knowing I had to be, I wanted to be successful, and not just financially, but I wanted to feel like I achieved. And writing this book is one of the most exciting things I've ever done in my life because I never I never thought I'd ever write a book. Wow, but I wanted to write this book because I wanted the 30 million golfers in the United States and the 300 million golfers worldwide to know there is a quantitative method of putting that can make you a good putter. And you know what, Joe, it even works for a miniature golf. Because I'm a very competitive person, and uh even when I play miniature golf, I want to win.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, me too. What motivates you, Bob, these days?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I've got I've got a bunch of great kids and grandkids and and uh great-grandchildren and watching them grow up and uh seeing if I can be participatory and giving them some advice. Uh my my grandson just pitched a three-inning perfect game last night, 816. So I love to watch these kids perform and uh they keep achieving. And I tried to keep we had a little conversation, my wife and I, with our grandson on Saturday, and we've shared uh some of our ideas. And he's this kid has really got his head screwed on straight, and he's he's going forth. He's a great football player and a great baseball player. He's just a great athlete, and he's a good student as well.

SPEAKER_03

That's wonderful. So given that motivation, sounds like legacy. How do you measure success?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I I think success, of course, is uh is kind of a an adage for those people. My first thing, I'm a Christian. Okay. Secondly, I'm a Catholic. Thirdly, I'm a family man. Okay. And those three things are the most important things in my life.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

I got a great wife, I got a I got a great family, and my measure of success is uh having having the leadership in that family and doing a good job. And I think I'm doing that.

SPEAKER_03

Absolutely wonderful. Bob, I was so excited when we set this up. Love talking about golf, love talking to engineers like yourself and just how your mind works. It's really, really interesting. Boblabby.com, B-O-B-L-A-B-B-E.com is where you can find the coasters and the book, correct?

SPEAKER_00

Well, the that's the the boblabby.com takes you to my book, by the coasters, uh, coasters of the ultimate coasterco.com.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, you can get both of those on Amazon. Uh you can get my book at uh Barnes and Noble and uh in any electronic uh Walmart, etc., etc. Any website uh you can get it at. But the the best place to get it is uh is Amazon, very honestly, because you get the best price. Right and free delivery if you're prime. Okay, so yeah, uh boblobby.com for the book and Ultimate Coaster Co. for the coaster.

SPEAKER_03

Bob, thank you so much for your time. Really enjoyed the conversation. You be well. I hope one day we get to meet and uh you know have a cup of tea.

SPEAKER_00

That would be great. I'll see you at the masters.

SPEAKER_03

That'll be even better. Thank you, Bob.

SPEAKER_00

If I if I hook up with Augusta National, I'm gonna ring you up and we'll go play together.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, I will hold you to that. I will hold you to that. Sounds great. Thank you, Bob. Be well.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, thanks. Thanks for having me, Joe.

SPEAKER_03

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