Joey Pinz Discipline Conversations

#887 Kelly McCann: 🧠 Where Healing Meets Spirit

• Joey Pinz • Episode 867

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🧠 What if your symptoms are not the enemy, but a message? In this powerful episode, Joey Pinz sits down with Dr. Kelly McCann to explore the deep connection between chronic illness, environmental toxins, nervous system health, and spiritual healing. From mold, Lyme, and mast cell activation syndrome to plastics, stress, and modern overload, this conversation challenges the way we think about health in today’s world. Dr. Kelly explains why so many people feel dismissed by conventional medicine, how toxins in food, air, water, and everyday products may be affecting long-term wellness, and why healing often requires more than labs and prescriptions. She also shares a more personal philosophy: the body does not betray us, it signals when we are out of alignment. This episode blends science, intuition, purpose, and practical wisdom in a way that is both thought-provoking and deeply human. For anyone seeking answers around chronic illness, emotional health, or the future of medicine, this is a conversation worth hearing. 

Top 3 highlights

  1. 🧪 Why environmental toxins, plastics, and modern living may be driving more chronic illness 
  2. 🫀 Why the nervous system, trauma, and stress responses affect how well we heal 
  3. ✨ Why symptoms may be signals pointing us toward deeper physical and emotional healing 

 

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SPEAKER_00

Dr. Kelly McCann, what a what an honor to speak with Dr. Kelly. The intersection of spirituality and medicine, where does it live in your mind? Fascinating backstory with Dr. Kelly. She was she went to school in New England Ivy League and then she she studied voice at the New England Observatory and then wasn't quite fulfilling and then applied to some medical school schools. She got accepted and did a residency and she was in Ghana for a while. She traveled all over. She was at a leprosy colony there in Ghana. We talk about that. She continued to get more degrees. And now she helps people with that intersection of function. It's beyond function medicine, as she says, but just endlessly fascinating the way she thinks and the way she, you know, how we talk about the environment and how tough it is to eat well. And there's just so many things against us in the water, in the air, in everything that we eat, and all the plastics. And similar just to uh especially here in the States, how you know the media tends to push us to be uh filled with let's say non-love, which is one of her foundations, but it's just a wonderful conversation for Dr. Kelly. Um time went by an instant. I thank you, Dr. Kelly, for your time. And I thank you for watching and for listening. Hi, I'm Joey Pins, and here's my 45-second introduction. After starting my business in the 90s, I started developing poor habits of eating in my diet because of working way too much. Before you know it, I found myself 340 pounds. The doctor told me if I don't lose the weight, I'm not gonna see my daughter graduate. Took the next seven months, lost 130 pounds. People think there's some secret. Ask me, how'd you lose that weight? Like there's some secret. There is no secret. How'd I lose the weight? Just one word. Discipline. I've had other successes in life, and I attribute them all to discipline. Now I'm not the king of discipline, but I believe that it can help all of us. Friends, colleagues convinced me to start a podcast. The podcast mission, how do we better ourselves and society? I talked to interesting people in health, fitness, sport, wellness, business, technology, science, art and culture. And I eventually asked them how discipline plays a role in their life. Podcast Vision, growth through learning from others. Thank you for your time today. What kind of peace and harmony does your hectic life bring when you garden and when you yoga?

SPEAKER_02

Um, well, I really do try to have as much peace as possible. But the peace that comes in with uh gardening yoga, it's just it's that settled connection that I have to my heart, my heart, my myself. Um, I talk to my plants every day. I tell them how beautiful they are. Actually, you know, this morning I was like looking at one of my plants in my bathroom and just singing a little love song. So, and it makes me happy, and I think it makes them happy too.

SPEAKER_00

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SPEAKER_02

Why not?

SPEAKER_00

You know, you know, my father as a kid always had a garden. You know, he's a he's an Italian immigrant, so there's always vegetables growing and everything, just use the land differently. But just within the last few months, I just started, you know, it's just a little herb garden, you know. And boy, I tell you, it's so simple. And it just I see the growth in them, and it's just uh what is it? I mean, it's just wonderful. I just love it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I know. I have this, I don't even remember the name of the plant. I feel so bad for my plant. I don't remember its name. But um there was a it's one of those very broad leaf uh plants, and it I got it and it had uh just been unfurled or it just started to unfurl, and I got to walk witness it unfurl. And the perfection of that leaf, not that the other ones aren't perfect, but they're a little bit more tattered, you know. Uh it's just it it has this sheen like a brand new baby. It's so beautiful.

SPEAKER_00

It really is. And it's been happening for thousands of years, and there's really nothing special about it, but to me, it's everything. I don't know what it's I don't know what it is. It's wonderful though. Like I said, the amount of traveling you've done, Dr. Kelly, is incredible. Uh yeah, India, China, Korea, Europe, Costa Rica. But let's talk about Ghana. You spent a decent amount of time there.

SPEAKER_02

I did.

SPEAKER_00

I believe you visited a leprosy colony as well.

SPEAKER_02

I did, yeah, it was part of our medical school curriculum. We spent a week in a leprosy colony, learned all about leprosy. I can spot it from across the room, and I know most people can too, but wow. Um, the the thing that was so amazing about it is it's it really illustrates the idea of terrain. Because for some people who get leprosy, so leprosy is a bacterial infection, it's a very slow-growing bacterial infection related to tuberculosis. Um and it's actually kind of hard to contract. You really have to live in close proximity to people who have it, uh, which is why you know lepers tend to be in a colony because nobody wants to be around them. But it's not, it's not contagious like COVID is contagious, it's not contagious like you know, even um Clostridiodifacile is contagious. Um so you have to be in close proximity for extended periods of time, and it's very slow growing, and it it is attracted to the areas in the body where it's less warm. So, like the earlobes, uh the genitalia, kind of the appendages, the nose. Um and in some people, if they have a slightly more robust immune response, um, actually I should say a less response, they'll just get hyperpig hypopigmentation. So they'll end up looking a little bit like vitiligo, where they have uh white lighter spots, and they lose the melanin and they lose the sensation. So they'll be um they'll be lighter in color and also have less nerve fibers there. So they don't feel things. And this is part of the reason why the tissues get so degraded or broken down, because they may hit something and not recognize it, or if they're losing um sensation in the bottom of their feet, for example, they may step step on a nail and not know it and then get um then get a wound and it gets it doesn't heal very well. And that's why you know we have this vision of like pieces and parts falling off people.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_02

Um and then if they have a more robust response, that's when they get the bumps everywhere, the lipomatous lesions that are very characteristic, you know, when you see pictures or or um characters portrayed in the movies with these growths all over them. Um so it's it's fascinating, really. It's a fascinating disease, thankfully, in very few places in the world.

SPEAKER_00

Do we have a cure for it?

SPEAKER_02

We do, actually. Um, it's a multiple medication regimen, kind of similar to some of the tuberculosis medications that we use.

SPEAKER_00

I see. And that they just don't have access to them, these colonies?

SPEAKER_02

Um no, they do. They do often they're under treatment. Um yeah, they're under treatment when they're there. Um so it's it's it's very limited in its scope um in the world now. There used to be a leprosy colony in Louisiana. Um I think that was the it's also called Hansen's disease. Um I I don't remember right now, but I think that one was closed down in the past several decades.

SPEAKER_00

But you send you spend decades uh doctors studying chronic illness, right? And environmental medicine. So what do people what's the biggest misunderstanding about just general health today?

SPEAKER_02

Um that's a that's a huge great question, Joey. You know, I think the biggest misunderstanding is that part of the reason why we're getting sicker as a society is the environmental chemical exposures that we all are um exposed to um in our food, in our air, in our water. Um and none of us are uh exempt from those exposures. And it's part of what's driving the obesity epidemic, the diabetes epidemic, the infertility epidemic, autoimmune conditions, um Alzheimer's, um you know, neuro neurodevelopmental problems. It's not one thing. You know, medicine has this idea uh called Occam's razor. If if all of these things uh in the symptomatology could be described by one condition, we're gonna find out what that name is, right? It doesn't work that way. It's total load, it's an environmental toxin, it's a it's an environmental medicine concept called total load. And that total load is really all about how much we're being exposed to and how much can we handle. So I love the idea of a sink. You know, some people have ginormous sinks and they can tolerate a lot of things, and they've got huge drains. So they've got great detox pathways, they can party like rock stars, and it doesn't really matter because they are so robust in their constitution and their genetic makeup, et cetera, that they can handle it. And then people who I care for tend to have really shallow sinks and very narrow drains, and their capacity for tolerance of all these exposures is quite limited.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it gets very, very stress frustrating because you know, I I I go to the grocery store, I buy some vegetables. You have to put them in a plastic bag because they're they're loose. Then I buy, you know, some almond milk or it's in plastic containers, and then I buy some meat and it's in styrofoam and in a plastic bag. And then I buy, you know, everything. And then when I'm when I get all these items, of course, and I go to the I go to cash out. No, no, no, I'll I won't put it in a plastic bag, I'll put in one of my bags. I mean, does it really make that much of a difference at this point? I bring the bag under my shoulder every time. But it, you know, I heard you say you don't like to drink out of plastic bottles, neither do I. You know, I've got a metal one, and we do we have these incremental, you know, try to avoid seed oils, you know, read ingredients. But do all these incremental little things, they I hope they help ultimately.

SPEAKER_02

They do. Well, I mean, I think the the idea of bringing your own bag to the grocery store is simply to limit the amount of bags on the planet, right? I had this friend years and years ago, and she used to she showed this visual of like the devil just making plastic bags, turning them out. Oh, plastic bags, plastic bags. You know, there was the devil making plastic bags, polluting the earth. Uh, it's kind of like that. But, you know, there are other alternatives, right? We can, and you know, I I I I live a busy life. I'm I don't happen to bring my own cloth bags to my grocery store to put my cloth, you know, put the vegetables and the fruit in cloth bags. I could.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_02

Um I could go to the farmer's market and do the same. I could go to, you know, a local butcher and get things wrapped in paper. I can go to the butcher counter, you know, um in any grocery store and just have them put it in paper. So there are ways to get around plastic more so. Um, it's a little bit less convenient, but it may be worth it for us in the long run. Yeah, plastic's plastic is awful. Plastic is really awful. Um, because at this point, yeah, we can we can reduce our exposures to some of the chemicals in plastic, like the bisphenols and your harder plastics and the phthalates and your softer plastics. Um but the microplastics and the nanoplastics that are you know the wrap wrapped around our food on on you know plastic containers. Um, but plastic is it's in our clothing.

SPEAKER_00

It is.

SPEAKER_02

You know, think about polyester. That's plastic. And every time we wash it, we get particles of microplastics and nanoplastics that get in the water. You know how hard that is to filter. And then when we dry them in our dryers, now we've got plastic in our dust and we inhale it. And our young children and our animals inhale it too, because they're even closer to the ground. So things like dusting and vacuuming, which I will admit I hate. I will wash dishes every day of the week if you don't, as long as somebody else vacuumes. I hate vacuuming, but it's super important, yes.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and even you know, I I I took a tour in the recent months just from the water company. And I mean, the amount of by the time it gets to our home, it's still going through so much rubber and so much plastic, and the refrigerator, I have it going through a filter. Of course, it's a plastic filter, and there's plastic tubes that are connected. I mean, it it it and then you know, when you find out the glycophates that they're putting on everything, and the government they tried to re they try to remove it, but then they said, no, it's just too pervasive, we can't do it. And it's the reason why I'm uh pontificating here, but there's so many uh uh bread issues with people have, and when they go to Europe, they don't have those issues. I mean, it's obviously what we're doing over here, and uh, you know, so you know uh it it's frustrating, but you just have to read labels and do it little things help, I guess is what we're saying, Doctor.

SPEAKER_02

Little things help, and um yeah, and I mean I think what happens for people with complex chronic illness is that they're forced to make those choices, they're forced to make those decisions, and the rest of us are like, oh, well, you know, we can still eat out here and there, whatever. But um, at some point there's gonna be a tipping point for everyone. And you know, what I find is that how how illness shows up in the body, how disease shows up in the body varies depending upon people's outlook, their spiritual beliefs, their how what they tell themselves, their emotional uh capacity for expression. So where a woman with similar exposures to her husband may end up with an autoimmune condition, maybe she's got a thyroid, you know, Hashimoto's thyroiditis um because she's not really speaking her truth and not really like expressing herself. Well, her husband might end up with cardiovascular disease because he's not expressing his heart, he's not really like um showing up for himself that way, and we don't see it as the same root cause, but it's possible.

SPEAKER_00

Fascinating, you're making making that connection because they don't teach you that in medical school, right?

SPEAKER_02

Oh no, oh no.

SPEAKER_00

Do they ever ask why in medical school why you have these diseases?

SPEAKER_02

I heard you say, Oh, yeah, no, no, it's not a question that's ever asked, right? And that that was thank you for asking, because I think this is such an important point for patients and for people in general. They go to the doctor and they expect to have like the most burning question that you have as a patient is why? Why is this happening to me? Right? Medicine doesn't care.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_02

Medicine doesn't ask that question. Medicine asks, what are your symptoms? And based on your symptoms, what differential diagnosis could you possibly have? Which is how I determine my list of the things that could possibly describe your symptoms, your symptomatology. And then based on my differential diagnosis, that's going to determine the lab tests that I order, the imaging that I might order, the referrals that I might suggest to you. Because all we're looking for is the label. We are looking for the name of the disease that explains what you have. And this is oftentimes why people will do labs and they'll come back and the doctor will say, Well, you're fine. Well, okay, just because the labs don't show the answer to the question, what is the label of the disease that I have, doesn't mean that you're fine. Simply means we didn't look hard enough, we didn't look deep enough, we didn't look broadly enough to figure out what's happening. And frankly, we didn't ask why, because we don't really care. That's not in our that's not in our wheelhouse to do. Now, on the functional side, that's where we shine, right? Right. We looked at root causes.

SPEAKER_00

I I recently, well, within the last couple of years, I moved to a a new state and I had to get a new doctor. And I was I was nervous, Dr. Kelly. And then within the first two minutes, he asked me, What do you eat? And I said, Oh, thank God. I'm so glad you asked that because so many doctors just don't ask that. I mean, what you're food is medicine, what you're putting in your body, they need to know that so they can help you, you know. And I said, Okay, okay, you're good then. You okay, I'm so glad you asked. And so we had a great discussion about whole foods and you know, seed oils and things like that. And there's another thing that I just don't see happening a lot is doctors not asking what you're eating. What are you putting in your body?

SPEAKER_02

Yes. Well, remember, I mean, I didn't have a single class on nutrition in medical school.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_02

I didn't have a single class. I still have gastroneurologists today who will say, Oh, it doesn't really matter what you eat, you just got to get calories in. Go ahead and have some ice cream. I'm like, oh my God, to your to your, you know, Crohn's disease patient who is just getting out of the hospital from a Crohn's flower. Like, what? No, no, don't do that, please.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. I like what you said. I'm sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02

No, no, no, no, no, please. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. I like what you said about symptoms are messages, they're not actual betrayal. Sometimes say, okay, my body's betraying me. Look what it's doing, but it's actually messages. You got to reframe that a bit.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, thank you for asking. I think this is critical. This is really critical because Western medicine, um, Western philosophy is all about the mind and the brain, right? I am like, um, I think therefore I am. I think therefore I am. So who I am is what I think. This is the entire paradigm of Western culture. And that has seeped into Western conventional medicine. And the way that I think about it is that we are not just our minds, we're our bodies, and we are more than that. I mean, I think the vast majority of human beings on the planet would say there's something called spirit. We don't have to talk about God. It's more like, is there some part of me that is not just my physical body, not just my mental or my thoughts? Um you know, I kind of look at it like, well, have you ever seen a dead person? What's the difference between a dead person and a living person? Can you tell? Of course you can tell. Right? There's something that alivens us. Um, and that I would call spirit. And so if we are more than just our bodies and our minds um and our emotions or spirit, could it be that spirit is helping us really stay on track with who we're supposed to be on the planet, right? Most people have a sense like I have a purpose or I want a purpose, I want a reason to be here. Um that purpose and that reason to be here is why we want what we want in our lives. We want peace, we want love, we want to be loved. Right. And so that's the drive that's in us. And the body is the messenger of the spirit. And when we're off track, when we're not speaking our truth, when we're not expressing our emotions, when we're attacking ourselves because we're saying, Oh, I'm so stupid, I'm so fat, I'm so dumb, I can't believe I kept doing this, blah, blah, blah, whatever. We do those things, we're not really living in alignment with our purpose and our soul. And so then the body gives us feedback. You're off track. You're off track. So could it be that the symptoms that we have are not negative? They're not a sign that the body is against us. Could it be that it's a sign that our spirit and our body speaking for our spirit in the only language that it has, which is which is sensations and symptoms, is saying you're off track. There's some internal things that you need to do to get yourself back on track, to be creative, to be expressive, to live joyfully, to get rid of the toxic people in your life who are you know bringing you down, or to change the way that you're talking to yourself because what you're saying to yourself is damaging yourself, beating yourself up.

SPEAKER_00

Boy, you don't talk like a medical doctor. That's very comforting. Um thank you.

SPEAKER_02

I'll take that as a comfort.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's very comforting. I don't want to downplay medicine. We certainly need it, but we we need functional as well. We need that side just as much, right?

SPEAKER_02

And you know what? What I would say, Joey, is that this is beyond functional. This is beyond functional. What I was really looking for was um was kind of the next iteration of medicine, where we don't just stop at the physical and the why. We really ask, what is the deeper truth that is here? Because I could tell you why a patient has mast cell activation syndrome. They've got um mold exposure, they might have Lyme disease or Bartonella, maybe they're in a you know high EMF apartment building, um, maybe there's childhood trauma. But the deeper why is what is our relationship to ourselves, our spirit, our sense of purpose and truth, and how in alignment are we living that?

SPEAKER_00

Do you believe that modern life is making us sicker, or are we just better at diagnosing illnesses?

SPEAKER_02

I think modern life is making us sicker.

SPEAKER_00

Wow.

SPEAKER_02

I really do. Um so uh I quite a number of years ago now, it's probably almost 10 years ago, I went to an autism conference on methylation. Methylation is a process that happens a billion times a second in every cell in the body. Many people know that they have uh MTHFR or methyl tetrahydrofolate uh gene variant. Um, and when you have methylation variants, that can often complicate detoxification. And so this whole conference was about methylation and autism, and there was a panel of genetics that the moms would hold up. And I had done the same panel. And when you're looking at single nucleotide polymorphisms or SNPs, you're looking for um it's two genes, one from mom, one from dad, and you can have variants in either one, which is called heterozygous, or both, which is homozygous. And so green was normal, yellow was uh heterozygous, one variant, and homozygous was red. And these moms would were up on stage actually um talking about their children, like um, you know, this young man is nine years old and he has no language and he was um headbanging and blah blah blah blah blah and telling the story. And then she would talk about how she had given certain nutrients, B vitamins, especially to help with methylation and improve things, and they would show the kids genetics. And then I was looking at my genetics, and I'm looking at the kids' genetics. Uh, I had double variants of multiple genes, wow. Um, you know, far more than any of the child, any of the children that the moms were presenting. Far more. Um MTHFR, CBS, C O M T, a couple of MTRRs, you know, like multiple. What's the difference between me and that child? The time in the world's history I was born. The amount of the amount of chemical toxins in my mom in 1988 compared to the moms in 2000 when they were having these kids. Huge, huge difference.

SPEAKER_00

Big difference. Yeah, I was born in 68 as well. My mother was a smoker when I when when uh you know and um yeah, just the the where's all this technology and modernness got us? I uh you know, ultimately we have to wonder. And your background is fascinating, Dr. Kelly, because you went to Brown undergrad, like studying music, and I believe you went to like the New England observatory to study, you know, voice, uh, and uh decided to take uh you know medical exams and got accepted to a bunch of medical schools and said, Well, I guess this is where I'm going. So your background was you didn't discover this till very late. I want to say late in life, but formerly.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I didn't know I didn't know I want to be a doctor when I was younger, had no idea. Yeah, I was a singer. I loved singing. It brought me such joy, such joy to sing. Um, and yes, I I studied with a woman at Noinga Conservatory, she was uh faculty there, and I would take the bus up from um from Providence to Boston every week to have a lesson and go to the Boston Symphony Orchestra and it was so much fun to do that, me and all the gray hairs on Friday afternoons.

SPEAKER_00

Um that's wonderful.

SPEAKER_02

It was it was spectacular, but then I realized like I just it's not quite enough. It wasn't quite enough for me to just sing. Um, besides the fact that I didn't love sitting in a practice room for hours and hours a day. Um I I wanted to do more than that and didn't always want to sing the music of dead white men. Because, you know, I went to an Ivy Lake school and I was like, I don't know about that. But um so I ended up moving back home in upstate New York, and my mom, who is a librarian, said, Well, why don't you go to library school? Because you have a bachelor's of arts in music, and you can't do anything with that. Uh, I couldn't even teach really. Um, so I got a master's in library science, and I could have gotten a job as a librarian. I sort of looked, but I didn't really want to be a librarian either. Um, the things that I was most interested in was the mind and the brain and how we organized information. And so I thought, oh, I'll I'll go and get a degree in neuroscience. Well, that would have taken three more years of undergrad, and I just wasn't ready to sign up for that. So I thought, ooh, medical school might be a little faster route to get to something that I can do. And about the same time, I started studying meditation with an acupuncturist who strongly encouraged me to go to osteopathic school to look at things a little bit more holistically. But at the time, I got into an osteopathic school, but at the time the the curriculum and the way, you know, the the teaching uh philosophy was, it just was so archaic compared to what Tulane had to offer. And besides, it's New Orleans who doesn't want to live in New Orleans, especially when you're a musician, right? So I I went to Tulane.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, going to school in New Orleans must have been something.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, it's so fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I'm sure. So you go to medical school, you do a residency, and then when do you make the transition to function, to holistic?

SPEAKER_02

Well, even in residency, I knew and and in medical school, so I, you know, I again found a medical acupuncturist. So the difference with acupuncture versus medical acupuncture is it's an MD who studies acupuncture. So there was a medical acupuncturist I studied with or spent some time with in medical school. Um I, you know, founded the student bodies um holistic medicine um association and went to a variety of different conferences. I I did some massage therapy classes, I did some healing touch classes. So I was really trying to like broaden my scope, even in medical school. Um yeah, and I got a master's in public health too. My goodness. For fun. For fun. Yeah, that's how I got to go to Ghana, which was amazing. Right. Um and then and then in residency, I chose a residency program where the program director just had such a huge heart. Um, and she let me have one of my continuity clinics again be with a medical acupuncture uh physician who's a family doctor. So um once a week for two years in my third and fourth year, I spent, I spent uh time in his clinic. Um, and that was really great um to be able to have a different perspective. Um, but then yes, when I finally graduated from from residency, I was like, oh phew, I can finally practice what I want to do. Yeah, so that's when I really, really started in more earnest.

SPEAKER_00

What should we know about acupuncture?

SPEAKER_02

Acupuncture is an amazing modality. It's been around for three to five thousand years. Uh they have a much more holistic sense about um the body and the energy, the energetics of the body with the meridians and the organs. And you know, when I talk about these messages, um that's all built into the understanding of the organs in the in the body from a traditional Chinese medicine perspective.

SPEAKER_00

It is, it's it's wonderful that we have these disciplines, these modalities that are thousands of years old and we can still practice them today. I mean, can you imagine the knowledge transfer that's happened over those, you know, over those generations? It's it's wonderful to wonderful to see. So after your residency, you did what? You started practicing?

SPEAKER_02

Yes, I moved to Oregon. I got a job in um in Corvallis and Lebanon, Oregon, um, with a hospital system there. And they had an integrative center. So I did some time there, and then I had a family, I was in a family practice, um, you know, like old-time setting where you're responsible for your patients in clinic, and then every six weeks I was responsible for the hospital admissions for um six or eight weeks for my group. Um, so that was pretty intense to be on call um at the hospital as well. It was a small, you know, local hospital, but still we had to do that. Um, and then I was studying medical acupuncture myself finally. And I had two colleagues in clinic, and one of them was also a medical acupuncturist. So we had these wonderful older gentlemen who were um mentors and uh colleagues to me. That was very sweet.

SPEAKER_00

Can you describe the stress level at a hospital like that when you know people are coming in and the illnesses and it's my goodness, can you describe it?

SPEAKER_02

Um, so the good news about that is it's a small local hospital. So the there wasn't an intensive care unit. Those people would have been um shipped up to Portland. Um, so it was like you know, more run-of-the-mill things, um, you know, pneumonia, sepsis from a urinary tract infection. Um I did also, though, um spend some time in um Astoria, Oregon, working as a hospitalist pediatrician. And that was that was definitely a crazier time intermittently. Um it's kind of like sailing, you know, hours of boredom and then moments of sheer terror. And that's that's taking a call in a small rural hospital. I remember one evening, so I'm responsible for the baby, right? I remember one evening um a mom came in and I think she had um she had an amniotic fluid embolism, and the baby had to be uh resuscitated and rushed to like um flight flown to Portland and I had to help stabilize the baby, and I think this was probably like my first or second week there. And um, yeah, that was uh that was a bonding experience with the Obi-Guyne for sure. Yeah. Uh yeah, it was pretty crazy.

SPEAKER_00

Everything ended up okay.

SPEAKER_02

Um I don't recall, actually. I don't recall so oftentimes once they would get transferred, we wouldn't always get information back. And then, you know, I was there for a couple weeks at a time or a week at a time, and then I would leave for a month or two at a time, and so I didn't always get follow-up on um some of the patients, sadly.

SPEAKER_00

I often think, you know, I'm in tech business. I always think, wow, what I do is so critical for it. It is not when I get to talk to people like you. Uh so you you you treat people right now with conditions like, you know, mold and uh chronic infection, mast cell activation syndrome, you said. Why do people struggle, you know, getting answers from these things?

SPEAKER_02

Uh conventional medicine doesn't acknowledge their existence. So it is really hard to get answers from a system that doesn't believe in a condition that you have. That's uh that's a huge stumbling block. Um, yeah, I mean, this is what happens is the doctors don't know about mold, or they have a belief system that Lyme doesn't exist or can't be a chronic condition. Really? Uh yes, yes. Very uh, very tragic, very problematic. Um it's like there's two worldviews of these things. Um, the doctors who recognize that Lyme is a complex chronic illness and it and it can be persistent, and then the CDC and the doctors who do not believe the infectious disease Society of America, who do not believe that Lyme is a chronic condition. They believe that if you took your, I don't know, two weeks of doxycycline, you should be good. And any residual symptoms that you have are immune issues, not persistent infection. Um, and there's medical literature on both sides of the fence to support the belief system. Um, frankly, if you actually treat and if you actually care about patients and you treat them, I find that they do get better when they're treated appropriately, as if it's an infection. So, you know, from my perspective, I'm gonna believe the person sitting in front of me. I'm gonna use all the tools that I can use to help them get better. And if that means they need to be treated for infections for longer, so be it. Um, and the same issue comes up with mast cell activation syndrome as well. So uh the allergist, immunologist came up with a consensus, and their consensus diagnosis definition for mast cell activation is based on a single marker called tryptase. So if you have a um during a flare, if you have an elevation of your tryptase, two plus blah, blah, blah, some sort of percentage, then you can have mast cell activation. I'm sorry, mast cells produce hundreds, if not thousands, of mediators. Why are we hanging our hat on a single mediator? It sounds like foolishness and very short-sightedness, and and clearly not interested in actually helping patients get better. My number one thing, uh became a doctor to help people get better. Like, you know, so did you swear an oath for that, by the way? Yeah, it's called the Hippocratic Oath. Kind of, kind of important, yeah, yeah, part of the whole thing, right? And so um, so when patients come in and they have a lot of symptoms, um, I'm actually uh I was one of the many, many co-authors on a paper that we call we lovingly call consensus two that was published five years ago now, um, that says the diagnosis of mast cell activation is a clinical diagnosis based on multiple systems involved and multiple symptoms um that are allergic, inflammatory, or growth-oriented, which basically means you can have a whole host of symptoms and it will qualify for the diagnosis. And then we use laboratory evaluations to support that diagnosis. Um and therefore you can actually see patients who have it because you don't have I don't have this bias. Um and I helped hundreds, if not thousands, of people now. And I did um two virtual summits in 22 and 23, uh, and we reached um 50,000 people, 45,000 people each time. So it's a huge issue, and um and these patients are very complicated. It is not a cookie-cutter kind of condition. It's very difficult um to get the right combination of things to help people feel better.

SPEAKER_00

What if discipline wasn't about punishment, but about unlocking your best self? I spent two and a half years writing discipline for greatness, because discipline changed my life. And I know it can change yours too. This isn't a theory. Inside, you'll find real practical steps you can use immediately to focus better, build stronger habits, reduce stress, accomplish your goals, and bring more balance to your life. Whether you're trying to get healthier, improve your career, or simply feel more control. This book gives you the framework. Start today. Grab your copy of Discipline for Greatness at joeypins.com slash book. Thank you. What is the nervous system? How does it play into this of being central to healing?

SPEAKER_02

So the nervous system and the immune system are really intricately linked. And you know, what's what we're seeing more and more is that the nervous system, when we're in, you know, sympathetic overdrive, fight, flight, freeze, or fawn, we do not heal very well. And due to um lots and lots of trauma, whether those are like ace-level traumas, about adverse childhood events traumas, or simply being on the planet and having misperceptions about what has happened as we grow up, because we all have little T traumas that cause us to have understandings about ourselves that may or may not be true. Um, these things lead to a dysregulation of our nervous system. And then how we talk to ourselves, how we feel, how we process our emotions, how we cope with external stressors determines how our nervous system functions on a regular basis. And so that's why things like gardening and yoga and breathing are so important. Finding things that bring us joy that make us feel love are so important because they are calming to the nervous system and we have to be in parasympathetic in order to heal.

SPEAKER_00

And so when stress and trauma, when they end. It affects your physical well-being.

SPEAKER_02

It does, yes. And there is a separation between the trauma and the stress and what we do with that. Now, not as children, not necessarily, right? We don't have the conscious awareness. But if somebody cuts me off in traffic, which is not an unheard of event in Southern California. Right. How I respond to that event is completely under my control. Right. Right? I can get pissed off and start beeping my horn and giving him the bird, or I could say, oh dude, I see you're in a rush. Have a good day. Right? How does that impact my nervous system? Drastically.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_02

Right? So when we can recognize that we have control over our responses to the events that occur in our lives, we have so much more sovereignty, sovereignty, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you certainly do. You know, this is purely anecdotal, and if you'll indulge me, Dr. Kelly, but I mean, I generally find friends, colleagues, they get stuck in three ways. And again, this is anecdotally in what you said just the the one, of course, is trying to control things you can't control, right? I mean, it's that simple. Why would you do that? The second one is the whole holding off on happiness. I'll be happy when I get the raise, or I'm happy if this person treats me, or you know, just kind of putting it on pause when it obviously is under your complete control. And then lastly, I find this too is that, well, I'm this way because of something that happened to me in the past, or I'm this way because this is gonna happen in the future. So I'm prepared. So purely anecdotal, but I find it tends to make a little bit of sense. Thoughts?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely, all of all of that, right? So um many patients come in and they're like, I'm gonna start living my life when I get better.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_02

Well, what about living your life now to the best of your ability right now, right? Feel the joy and feel the um feel the emotional experience of what you're experiencing right now. And that's huge. Okay, is it exactly what you want? Well, yeah, we all have preferences, but the more that you can be grateful for where you are, the fact that you're still alive, that's a good start. Yeah, um it definitely how we approach ourselves, our lives can either keep us trapped in this wheel of suffering, or it can allow us to break free. And so oftentimes the conversations are for me, are about like, would you consider the possibility that you can respond differently? That you have the you know, you have the power to respond differently. I remember trying to have a conversation with uh a stepmom of a patient. Actually, the stepmom is also my patient, but um, you know, the the um just trying to have this conversation, like okay, I I hear that you're having a lot of stress and feeling really stressed out about this situation, but is there a possibility that you know there's a separation here? And she just looked at me like I was from a different planet. She had no idea what I was talking about, like nope. So, you know, so it starts with having the awareness that I could do this differently. I don't have to respond the way that I've always responded. I don't have to allow that person to push my buttons. I could say, you know, um, I'm not gonna allow that to push my buttons. Well, usually we have to do some integration, we have to do some emotional work. We have to like, we can't always do it with our minds and our wills, right? We have to do it with a little bit of deeper work, but we start with a question of possibility.

SPEAKER_00

We learn that in meditation where we try to separate our thoughts from us, right? The analogy of you know, you're looking at the clouds, those are your thoughts passing by and you're separate from them. Correct. Uh, I it's a real simple concept, of course, but sometimes it's tough to get across. Is there something, Dr. Kelly? Let's say like 10 years ago that you believed in firmly that you no longer believe now.

SPEAKER_02

That's a good question, Joe. I am not sure. Um probably a misbelief that I held on to was that I had to sacrifice myself in order to help people. And that that was that was how I had to live my life. Um and I I wouldn't have said that it was a conscious um choice, but it did a lot of self-sac sacrifice, um, yeah, to family, to patients. Um, like my my health isn't as important as helping all these other people, and you know what drives that? Well, I'm not okay, I'm not enough just being who I am, a misbelief that I had. And so, you know, over the past 10, 15 years, I've really been working on those beliefs that are not true, right? We are driven by fear, we are driven by beliefs that we hold that are not actually true. And the more that we're able to recognize the beliefs that are no longer serving us and the emotional um trigger inside that is perpetuating those beliefs, and learn how to feel those feelings, like feel the sadness for um I I had to go through this process of grieving um all the time and energy and effort I sacrificed for other people, and then get angry for all the time and effort that I sacrificed for other people, get angry at them, God, myself, and feel those things. That then once the emotions quiet back down, there is an integration that happens, and then I no longer have to do that anymore because that's not in me anymore, because it's been expressed and processed, which is how I started the conversation where he's talking about the wife with the thyroid issues or the husband with the cardiac issues.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_02

When those emotions get felt fully and processed, they integrate, and then we don't have to keep doing those same things again.

SPEAKER_00

Was that a slow burn, Dr. Kelly, that to come to that realization? Was there a slow and then one thing kind of tripped it?

SPEAKER_02

It's been a it's been a journey for sure. I got a master's in spiritual psychology at the University of Santa Monica um in 2010. And so from 2008 to 2010, which is the years that I built my practice in Southern California, I was steeped in these concepts of you know, really trying to live in the loving space inside of myself, see myself with uh, you know, with love, see my patience with love. Um and and from there I was able to really just help patients who I found were open to making these small internal shifts. And for me, what happened was the patients who were most open were the patients who got 100% well because they were willing to do the deep inner work and identify the thoughts, beliefs, emotional patterns that were no longer serving them and heal them. And then more recently, I launched a program called the Unforgetting Project. So, what is unforgetting? It's a little different than remembering.

SPEAKER_00

I was gonna say remembering, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

It is m remembering, but it's different in that we have forgotten who we really are, how powerful we are, how filled with love we are, how divine we are, and um when we forget, there's a little bit less accessible to us, but as we unforget then we have more and more of our authentic selves, or am I you know lexicon remembered self available to us, which is love, which is um you know, our purpose, all those things. And when we are residing in loving, we don't uh we we naturally don't have as much pain, suffering, separation, disconnection, disassociation as a result. And this is where the messages come in, right? So the messages of the body are the signals saying there's a disconnection here, there's a disassociation here, um, there's a forgetting here that needs to be dealt with about how we need how you really are, right? I mean, look at look at babies. When babies come in, they are like joy incarnate, right? Right, and they cry when they're hungry, they cry when they're hurt, but otherwise they're pretty darn happy. Yeah, and then what happens to them? They come in exactly. Well, I so here's the other thing too, like um I really want to reframe the whole journey of life in as positive a way as possible, right? Because if we automatically knew who we were and were able to express that from the very beginning, we wouldn't really appreciate it. So the whole unfolding of life, we actually need to forget. We need to forget who we are. That's part of the journey because in the in the exploration and the drive back to ourselves is where we learn, and we learn best through adversity, and then those those lessons are just so precious to us because we've rediscovered them. Yeah, so it is an unforgetting.

SPEAKER_00

You know, a system that I have when I find myself getting frustrated with, you know, trying to control things I can't control. But when uh it's interesting you mentioned babies. I I see the person and I say, wow, this person used to be a baby, and it's somebody's daughter or son, and what's happening here? You know, you know, there's no reason to be frustrated at all. There's no it's a it's an interesting way to look at it. What is the intersection, Doctor, between spirituality and medicine?

SPEAKER_02

Well, I mean, I think I think it's all connected. I think that the body shows us where we're disconnected, and those are our opportunities to shift and heal, and we can do that when the symptoms are very subtle, or we can do that when the symptoms and the alarms are blaring, you know, when the fire alarm it's a fire drill, right? So my thought would be well, if that's the case, uh sign me up for, you know, just making sure that I'm listening to my body and I'm paying attention and I'm honoring it. And when you know things get a little louder, then I have to pay closer attention. Um yeah, I mean it kind of depends on how you like your lessons. Do you like them super hard? Or are you willing to be open to the possibility that they don't have to be quite so hard?

SPEAKER_00

You know, it occurs to me, Dr. Kelly, as I as I talk to you, it's the science versus you know art question. And I I I listen to you, and you know, you've you're very scientific. You understand what's happening, but you have this whole spirituality side and you still like to guard it and do yoga. I wonder how often, how often do you involve the gut in making decisions?

SPEAKER_02

Oh, every day, multiple times a day. Yeah. It's so that's the other beautiful thing, too, is like the more that we, the more that I have found that I work through my misbeliefs, my misinterpretations of reality, express my emotions, the more I integrate and embody, the more I just am my authentic self, remembered self. And therefore I'm doing everything from my gut as much as I can. And yes, it, you know, there's still that filter of like experience and book knowledge and things like that. But um yeah, I mean, okay, I'm gonna go out on a limb. I use muscle testing with almost every single patient if they're if they're willing to let me do that. Um, and I'm not a hundred percent, but I'm far better than you know cookie cutter medicine by you know, by leaps and bounds, and and and especially with these complex chronic illness patients who every single person is on a different regimen. There's no two patients in my practice that take the same supplements or take the same amount of supplements, and that's on purpose. They are different, they need different things, and so I use it with my patients, I use it with myself. Um, you know, bigger, bigger questions, smaller questions. I'm paying attention to my gut. I have to because that's that's not gonna lie to me when I'm when I'm embodied. And it's different than fear. It's different than fear, right?

SPEAKER_00

Because with fear, you're worried about the consequences with your gut, there's more of a trust.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, like I trust I'm gonna be okay. I trust um that my choices are gonna be the best choices that I can make for myself for the highest good of me and everyone that is around me. At least that's that is the goal. That is the goal is to make choices based on love and trust and not fear.

SPEAKER_00

So I started my my business, Kelly, in the 90s and the early 90s. I think we're about the same age. And uh, you know, I was in my 20s. Exactly the same age. I think we're exactly the same age, yes, but you look a lot better. Um I was in my 20s, I was invincible, right? I was starting a business. Uh, I felt I'm from New England too, by the way, so we might have looked into each other. What are the odds? Uh actually, believe it or not, my ex-wife went to Brown of all.

SPEAKER_02

Seriously, yes. I might even know her.

SPEAKER_00

Crazy, wonderful campus. Uh, a lot of great restaurants in Providence, yeah. Yeah. And you never took home the accent. Um, I didn't either. Yeah. Uh 14, 16 hour days, you know, uh working too hard, putting my exercise and diet in the backseat. I get in front of the doctor, she tells me I'm at 340 pounds. So I had gained all this terrible, yeah. I yeah, I I knew I was getting big. I didn't think I was that big. But the next thing she said, you know, changed my life. If you don't lose this weight, you're not going to see your daughter graduate. So my daughter was just born, scared the life out of me. I'm driving home, punching the steering wheel. This is my pie hole, right? I did this to myself. My decisions are much bigger than me, you invincible 20-year-old dummy, right? So I have for some reason, uh, there's that negative talk. You should never say that to yourself. And um I have some responsibility for stuff somehow I'm responsible for bringing this beautiful, beautiful girl into this world. I need to change what I'm doing. Spent the next six or seven months, lost about 120 pounds, and kept it off. So that these are lifelong changes. You can't look at it as a finishing line. Many people say, okay, I'm done. Let me go back to the, you know. So when I tell people this, all wait, what'd you do? What's your secret? And there's no secret, Dr. Kelly. I just say discipline, right? Focus, routine, motivation. I wonder how discipline plays a role in your life.

SPEAKER_02

Well, absolutely, discipline plays a role. I mean, and it had it had to. Um, it had it had to play a role. Like I used to have uh in my office, I used to have a wall with all of my diplomas on it. And I would jokingly call it my wall of shame. You know, why is it my wall of shame? Because I was so ashamed of who I was, I had to work so hard to create this so that I wasn't ashamed of who I was, right? So I no longer feel that way about it, but that was definitely the driving force at the time, you know. So we can be driven by many different things. Our wills can be very strong. Um, and it's a fantastic coping mechanism. I am, and this is where the reframe of the whole journey is important. I would not be the person that I am if I didn't have those drivers that caused me to go get all those diplomas in the first place, right? So I am incredibly grateful to myself and to my journey that I accomplished those things to get me to where I am now. Because if I felt fantastic all the time when I was young, I wouldn't have done all that, right? So um, and it's still important to have will, it's still important to have discipline, it's still important, like it's still important to walk, like work our bodies, go for a walk, exercise. That's like next on the list. I've been checking all the list. You know, I mean I need to go back to the gym. It's time. Um, there's been a few other things that have pulled me away. You know, it happens, it happens.

SPEAKER_00

Through the education and through singing, uh it was discipline your your mother's a librarian. Was it discipline kind of discussed? Was it just kind of exemplified in your household and as a child?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I mean, my dad was a lawyer growing up, and and then he became a school teacher because he was an unhappy lawyer. Um, and my mom was a was a librarian. And yeah, I mean, it was just I I loved school. I loved learning. Um, and and there was also that validation, you know, dad will be a dad will love me if I I do these things. My parents will love me if I do these things, I'll be a good girl. I wanted to be a good girl. Um, and so those were drivers. Um, but yeah, I mean it was it was always I always had that expectation of myself that I was going to do something.

unknown

Dr.

SPEAKER_00

Kelly, is there a question you wished more people asked you?

SPEAKER_02

Hmm. Um how about this one? Um, how do I see medicine and health unfolding as we move forward?

SPEAKER_00

Hmm. With AI, with technology, with what's happening, with all these kind of factors?

SPEAKER_02

With all those factors, yeah, but you know, more um probably more along the lines of what we've been talking about. You know, where I think the next level of health is going to um need to be integrated is that spiritual level. And um, and there's a lot more people talking account kind of about that mind body connection. Um here's my take on it. The mind is the monkey and it can lead us astray, and it is not where the answers lie. And we can use we can we can do a lot with our minds, we have will with our minds, we have um many thoughts, but the the body can't lie, the mind can lie. The body can't lie, and I think healing comes from the expression of the emotions which live in the body. We we're not ghosts in the machine, we are physical beings, and we're embodied for a reason. And so there's a lot of people doing psychedelic journeys and you know paying attention to the mind and the nervous system, and that is great, but it's all out here. Um and what I think we need really need to pay attention to is being in the body, being embodied. What does my shoulder want to say? What does my knee want to say? What does my gut say? What does my gut say? You know, what does my heart say? We can't get to I don't think that we can get to the truth of who we really are out here in the thoughts in the mind. That's my personal take on it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. The mind can leave well, the mind has imagination, our body doesn't, right?

SPEAKER_02

Well, not when we're looking for truth, right? Like the mind is is amazing. It can come up with all sorts of ideas and be very creative. Um, but it can also lead us astray. It can also fill us with fear, it can also uh lie to us. Our bodies, our bodies don't lie, they really don't. And so if we're f especially from a from a physician standpoint, looking at health and like, how do I help people truly heal at the deepest levels of their being so they don't have to keep taking a pill or coming back to see me for maintenance? Um, it's really about uh empowering and embodying.

SPEAKER_00

What motivates you, Dr. Kelly?

SPEAKER_02

Love.

SPEAKER_00

How so?

SPEAKER_02

Um I I love my patients. I I yeah, it's really it's really love. Like I I want I I have recognized that I can't want more health for people than they want for themselves. Right? But I can love them in whatever phase of desire they want to help themselves. Um yeah. That's love.

SPEAKER_00

What's the opposite of love?

SPEAKER_02

Fear.

SPEAKER_00

Some would say hate, but you say fear.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, we hate be we hate because we are afraid.

SPEAKER_00

We're afraid, right?

SPEAKER_02

You know, hate we can be angry, but underneath that anger is fear.

SPEAKER_00

Is it easy to love?

SPEAKER_02

Um I think I think it depends on I think it depends. I mean are you familiar with Hawkins' uh level levels of consciousness?

SPEAKER_00

No.

SPEAKER_02

Okay. Um when when we were off the podcast, I would suggest you look it up. But it's about frequencies, it's about emotional frequencies. Um love is at a frequency of around 500.

SPEAKER_00

And the scale is?

SPEAKER_02

And the scale is from 20 is the lowest vibrational frequency uh in human experience, and the highest vibrational frequency is a thousand. That's Christ consciousness, right? So enlightened masters 700 and above. Joy is actually 600. Uh the lowest, shame. Right above that, guilt. Fears down there somewhere, I don't remember off the top of my head. Anger is actually higher. Anger is, I don't know, let's say 75, 100, 150, something like that. Um and those are emotions. And so we have this idea about emotions, like I feel, you know, upset. I feel betrayed. That's not a feeling. That's a that's a thought masquerading as a feeling. I feel shame. Shame is really hard to feel. That's why we don't like to feel it. Guilt. Um fear. Fear is fear is uh hard to feel. But we have to feel it because it's in us, and in order to integrate it, we have to feel it. So that that um levels of frequency of consciousness, I think, is really helpful. Kind of wrapping your head around like, well, where where do I spend my day? Am I angry all the time? Um, am I living in love as much as possible? No. Um it, you know, it's easy, it's easier to love plants, it's easier to love animals, it's easier to have that loving with them. Um it's a lot harder to have loving with with humans sometimes because we do stupid things to each other or hurtful. Um, but that's a good goal. And to be able to separate the behavior from the person. I think that's really important too.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and thoughts from people too, you know, because I like to think that I can change my mind given on any, you know, new evidence. And many times we put thoughts with people, but you know, it's just like it is, I just kind of derived the point here while you were talking, how the system is so geared for us not to be healthy because of all the plastics, because of everything that's in the water and the food and the atmosphere and the air. So too, especially here in the states, it's it's very easy. The media does not base itself on love. Angry people click, angry people watch, angry people vote. So therefore, it's in their best interest to keep people angry because and fearful because, of course, I mean, of course, the root of all that evil is money, of course. And so if they keep watching and they keep clicking, they'll you know, they can pay the bills because they'll pay for more advertising. So it again, so we have to make the conscious effort to be loving, to not give in to these uh cycles of fears that are just manufactured. Correct. Correct, yeah, yeah. What a thesis.

SPEAKER_02

And easier, easier said than done. Yes. I I don't turn on the TV and watch the news. I haven't for months and months. I just it's naivete, but it's also like self-protection.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_02

Is it really gonna be helpful for me to know all the terrible things that are going on in the world that I have no control over once another? Probably not. Right, probably not, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So giving your motivation, Dr. Kelly, with as love and I I I all you didn't say it, but I also kind of hear impact as well. Um so given the motivations or those motivators, how do you measure success?

SPEAKER_02

Um people healed. I don't know. I I mean, you know, like I'm a business owner, I I live on the planet, I I have to feed myself and uh, you know, pay my bills, and it's not cheap to live in Southern California. Um so it's yeah, but do I need a McMansion on the beach? No, I really don't. Like I'd like to buy my own house one day. I don't own my own house currently. Um, so you know, there are there are things like that. I forget the question. I'm sorry, Joe.

SPEAKER_00

How do you measure success?

SPEAKER_02

Success. Um, well, not by not by the money in my bank account, certainly, but um yeah, love and impact. I think that impact, yeah. When patients come in and they like say, I'm so grateful, I feel so much better. That just makes my day.

SPEAKER_00

That's wonderful.

SPEAKER_02

Makes my day. I have this young man. Um, he came to see me a couple years ago and uh had a lot of digestive issues, just couldn't really eat anything. He was um probably he was very thin to begin with, but he was 25 pounds underweight and all sorts of digestive issues. And um, and I've been working with him and working with him, and um he'd been turning some corners, and then he started a nervous system program called Primal Trust, which I highly recommend. It's done a lot of great um great uh good for many of my patients uh doing this nervous system work. And he recently opened his own micro bakery, and he makes the most amazing gluten-free, dairy-free uh desserts I have ever tasted. They are divine. Um, and he's gained his weight back and he looks fantastic, he's so happy, and he's um currently doing the Unforgetting project. Um and just had another tremendous breakthrough uh this past week and just so filled with love. Like he's just a joy, and that's impact. That's impact.

SPEAKER_00

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SPEAKER_02

Um, change my mind on. What do you mean? Is there something in particular?

SPEAKER_00

Oh no, there's no wrong answer here. Just and then within the last month or so you thought so. I remember one somebody in the last couple of months said they went from uh they went from um well done cheeseburgers to medium rare. No. So there's no there's no uh wrong answer. Okay. Does anything do you find yourself you find you change your mind often?

SPEAKER_02

Um no, I I I don't, but I but I'm okay with like kind of going with the flow. So for example, um I the current place where I'm living, um my lease was up in in February, but I got an extension, and my landlord said, Oh, you know, maybe like June or July, and I have all this, I have all this travel coming up um in the next couple of months. And so I was like, okay, great, I'll get my travel done, I'll move in July. Um, and then he came back and he gave me more information. He says, I really need for you know financial purposes, I need to sell the house by the end of May. I was like, oh, okay, I gotta move. Um, and then I'm looking at all I'm supposed to go to Europe for like 10 days in May, in the middle of May. I'm like, okay, I I don't know when I'm gonna do this. So I within a week found a new place and I'm moving tomorrow. I I'm literally gonna go home. Problem solved change out of my dress into some sloppy clothes and and finish packing. Yeah. And so I'm gonna move tomorrow. So that was a pretty quick change based on on circumstances, um, and was able to adapt and say, okay, well, I'm gonna do this. And you know, it is what it is. I've hired movers, my stepdaughter's gonna help me pack, and you know, hopefully by 9 a.m. when the movers come, I'll have everything in boxes.

SPEAKER_00

Wow. Such a pleasure talking with you. I know we had to reschedule this, and uh I'm so glad we finally did anybody watching or listening, how can they get in touch with you?

SPEAKER_02

So the couple different ways uh you can get in touch with me. Uh you can find me on Instagram at Dr. Kelly McCann. Uh if you're interested in becoming a patient at the Spring Center, I actually have licenses in 10 or 11 other states. So there's often a good chance that you could see me if you're not in California. Um, although I do typically ask people to come in person for the first appointment. Um, and I have a team of practitioners who works with me here at the Spring Center. So it's thespringcenter.com. Um, I have my own personal website, Dr. Kelly McCann, where there's webinars and blogs and other information that's uh available. And then if the spiritual conversation has piqued your interest at all, I have a program called the Unforgetting Project. It's not unforgettable or unforgivable, it's unforgetting. Unforgettingproject.com. Um, and we have a nine-week foundational program. Um, my next cohort starts mid-May. I'll have another one in July, probably another one in September and October. Um, and um, that's probably the best way to begin that kind of um emotional work. And it's really special. It's a live program. Um, and we do work in trios. So it's a lecture, uh, large group sharing, and then we work in trios where we're doing some of this emotional work on a smaller scale with uh two other people. Um, and so it's really built to be a container of loving support, um safety, which is something that is not often felt in many of these programs, and that safety container is required is really necessary to have the capacity to allow yourself to feel those feelings. Because it's not easy when we're adults to feel our feelings. Um it's scary, but it's critical, it's critical for our health, it's critical for our well-being, it's critical for critical for our self-expression. And so that's what we're doing there at the Unforgetting Project.

SPEAKER_00

Incredible. Thespringcenter.com, Dr. Kelly McCann, that's with two C's and two N's.

SPEAKER_02

And two L's.

SPEAKER_00

And two L's. Good point. Kelly's got two L's, yes. Next time I'm in Southern California, perhaps we'll get a cup of tea. Thank you so much for your time today.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you, Joey. This has been fantastic.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you for listening andor viewing Joey Pins Discipline Conversations. Please share this episode with one or two of your friends who you think may benefit from the episode. Our website, www.joeepins.com. There you find lots of resources, and you could join our mailing list. Please follow us on all our social media, Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. Podcast information, the video version of our podcast is on YouTube. Please subscribe. Audio is on all major podcasting platforms. Please follow them. And if you like it, please consider giving five star rating. Would really appreciate that. Thank you again for listening or watching Joey Pinn's Discipline Conversations.